Hi folks,

I’ve been researching vintage European bikes for a future project. There seems to be a wide variety of opinions on the attributes of each country’s bikes. Examples: English bikes handle the best, French bikes have the best ride, Italian bikes offer the best overall performance (Well, they are Italian, aren’t they), etc. Supposedly, early continental bikes are poorly finished. Then there are the Dutch and Belgium bikes.

I’m considering building a retro path racer and would like to use an old English built lugged frame. Because some of these and all Italian made frames tend to command high prices, I’d consider other English treaded frames. I’m not a fan of the weird treading on French and older Raleighs and neither is my parts collection.

I’d like suggestions and inputs from other forum members on a cost effective approach to this project. This is just going to be a personal, around town ride, I don't want to go nuts on the cost.

Thanks and regards,

Van

Oddly, we don't hear much about Egyptian bicycles.

The 26 tpi Raleigh threading is just the lower end stuff. Something like a Super Course or Gran Sport would be perfect for your use I think, and are good $/value bikes.

Depends on what you mean by "retro path racer." What kind of attributes are you aiming for? Internal gear hub? Single speed? Drop bars?

The country of origin doesn't matter, and many of those tendencies are era specific. Find a bike that you like for whatever reason. Not all french bikes ride the same, not all italian...etc.

Best bang for your buck is often Japanese...or small name stuff that others aren't aware of. You can build up a great gravel bike with an 80s all arounder if that's what you mean.

Beware though -- some Super Courses have 26 tpi bottom brackets or headsets. Which do and don't is hard to pin down. Usually cotterless versions have 24tpi. Sheldon, unfortunately, was wrong on this one.

I'm currently working on the French version, based on a frame by perhaps the last French constructeur, Gilles Berthoud! I want to build a sort of all rounder that I can take randonneuring. I will base it on the French style.

Its an interesting way to tackle a bike build for sure. I should get my base to start soon, then parts acquisition will be fun.

I am not as concerned with new old stock. I don't mind some patina that offers character, so if you don't mind that, you can save cash on the second hand market. things get crazy for "NOS" items.

I look forward to seeing how your build progresses. take plenty of photos.

Sorry for the smart-aleck answer earlier. It was a rather abrupt way of conveying essentially what Aaron did more politely.

I tend to appreciate the vision and creativity of others, but to my thinking, if you're going to attempt a British-inspired build, start with a British frame. There are plenty of British makers who made frames with the angles that were typically used as path racers. From Raleigh, to Mercian, to Ellis Briggs, Viking, Jack Taylor, etc. etc. I believe that Sheldon's web site and the ClassicRendezvous web site have good primers on the topic. If you can strike up a conversation with Hilary Stone, or Norris Lockley, or John Crump, you can pick their brains for a wealth of information "straight from the horse's mouth" so to speak. There are also plenty of others who know quite a bit, and will no doubt be helpful in sharing.

If budget, or lack of opportunity (or patience) makes the "authentic frame" option unachievable, it is always possible to match performance and functionality once you know what to look for. There might be some model of Fuji, or Centurion or Schwinn that could prove acceptable (conjecture here).

At any rate, you have a guaranteed support group here who can at least appreciate your efforts, if not assist you directly in moving them forward.

Over on the Classic Rendezvous website Norris Lockley just posted a really interesting comparison of British and French builders during the postwar period. His posts are always long and rambling and awesome. Since he himself was a frame-builder at that time he speaks with some authority.

What is your budget? You can find very nice older British frames for good prices if you're patient. As with everything, there are a few Big Names that always command high prices, and everything else itends to be much more reasonable. It doesn't hurt to put out a word, lots of people have things stashed away and don't really think about selling them until someone asks. In general, old (pre-1960) frames and parts from anywhere are more rare and expensive than more recent gear.

If you have very specific goals, you can jump on E-Bay and find the Colnago frame of your dreams.

However, if you are doing this on a budget, then a lot is just seeing what pops up. Craigslist/Thrift Stores/etc.

I'm seeing the limited selection of old Raleigh bottom brackets. However, if you are building a retro styled bike, you could use regular cotter cranks which would open up quite a few possibilities.

Hi folks,

Thanks for all of the feedback and quick responses.

Here’s my plan/goal. I had some vintage parts I’ve collected over the years that I would like to put to good use. These include; a 70s Stronglight track crankset, a set Universal 68 brakes, a Brooks saddle, mustache style handlebars, plus an assortment of levers, quill stems, pedals, etc. All of these parts are English threads/ sizing. Also, someplace I have a set of high flange Normandy hubs that came off an old Schwinn. As I recall, I’d rebuilt them and they were in good condition.

What I’d like to do is use these parts is build an old style single speed in the English path racer style. I’m more interested in the style than the historical accuracy since this is just going to be a personal ride. Wanting an English built frame is just an ancestry thing, so I’m not locked into it. I would prefer good quality tubing. It doesn’t anything fancy or double butted, however, I’d like to avoid the cheap, heavy stuff. A rear OLD of 126 would allow me gearing options such as an IGH. As I age the hills tend to get steeper and taller. RE: Budget, I’d like to keep the cost of the frame, including refinishing, under $200.

USA Zorro – A bit of off beat humor is always appreciated as are your comments and suggestions

KonAaron Snake – I guess I was just so hung up on European frames, that I didn’t consider the Japanese. Thanks for the input.

CliffordK – I’d hate to bastardize any Colnago with this build. As you probably know, Oregon, particularly, Eugene and Portland are hot beads for vintage bikes.

Thanks to all. Your inputs are greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Van Pennington

Where did you find that Font?

It's standard 12 pt Arial from MS Word. I usually create my work in Word and then copy and paste.

There are plenty of old English 3 speeds that would be good donors for your project. Just keep an eye on thrift stores and Craigslist.

Forence? Hmmm... Perhaps I could let you know if I find something interesting around here. Actually... I just picked up an old Mercier bike... that needs a bit of Mercy. I think it is supposed to be 531 tubing. Long horizontal dropouts (Simplex) without a derailleur hanger.

The advantage of the old 3 speeds, though, is that you naturally get the rearward facing dropouts.

If you give us an idea of the size you're looking for, at minimum, you'll have several additional sets of eyes on the lookout. If you're lucky, someone may have candidate frame that's just sitting around.

We get this question, "what should I look for?" a lot, and while I understand (and sympathize) with the intention behind it, I think it's the wrong question. I mean, okay... let's just say a Claud Butler Olympic Sprint frame is exactly what you're looking for. But if you limit yourself to that specific model, you will make it almost impossible to find one. I think you should just look at what's available, and remember your standards: it has to be your size, no funky threading, no lead pipe, whatever. And you'll do fine. Especially if you don't care exactly what it is. You might find a frame on ebay that's been repainted and its identity lost, which invariably reduces interest and therefore reduces the price. But if it suits your needs, there you go.

I found one like that a few years ago... just what I wanted, but no one knew what it was. Came pretty cheap. Took me a couple yeas to figure it out: it was a Claud Butler Olympic Sprint.

Hi CK,

I'm going to proceed slowly with this project until after my September vacation. Dear wife says, I need to watch my pennies. In rethinking this, I'm beginning to like the idea of one of the old Raleigh 3-speeds. Although one wouldn't be as light or as efficient as I'd planned, they are oh so cool. I especially like the ones with the funky forks which have the horizontal tube for the crown and the long rake. I think some of the later models were called "Limited".

If I find a good quality Limited, I'll start with it and if I find it doesn't meet my needs, I'll restore as best as possible. Of course, the biggest problem would be using a modern bottom.

Hopefully, I'll find a suitable, but slightly more current frame so I don't bastardize a classic. B-T-W, I'm looking for a frame with a ctc seat tube size of 53cm (21in) to 56cm (22in)

Thanks and regards,

Van Pennington
vancy@att.net

Hi Zorro,

A I stated, somewhat wordily, I'm looking for a decent quality lugged steel frame with English threads. I need a c-t-c seat tube size between 53cm (21in) and 56cm (22in). I'd like to keep the cost of the frame, including refinishing and shipping costs, in the neighborhood of $200. There are shops in my area that do a good powder for about $80. Of course the better quality of the finish, the more I'm willing to pay. I'm in no hurry since, I've just started planning this project.

Thanks and regards,

Van Pennington

I have a Ross Centaur in that size. A previous owner oversprayed with white, but rather lightly. I picked it up and tuned it up 2 years back thinking my step-daughter would be happy with it. Not so. Just takes up space now. Can take/send pictures if you want to take a look. I'd be happy getting $50.00 plus shipping, and I'm pretty sure the shiping is more than that. (too bad you don't live in my Florence)

[QUOTE=rhm;17867804] But if you limit yourself to that specific model, you will make it almost impossible to find one. I think you should just look at what's available, and remember your standards: it has to be your size, no funky threading, no lead pipe, whatever. And you'll do fine. Especially if you don't care exactly what it is. You might find a frame on ebay that's been repainted and its identity lost, which invariably reduces interest and therefore reduces the price. But if it suits your needs, there you go.
QUOTE]

rhm,

Thanks for the very applicable feedback. You were lucky to find your dream bike. I've kept my window wide open. Sometimes, my "wants" overshadow my budget, but I'm trying to be reasonable in this case. There's a lot of good stuff out there and with a bit patience, I'll be successful.

Thanx,

Van