How to fix a saddle?
 

I picked up a garage queen 1992 Paramount PDG Series 2 bike tonight. All original, even the bar tape. Tires still have the rubber prongs sticking out of the sides. The saddle does not look like it was used but the glue seems to have just given out. What kind of glue do you use to fix a saddle? Is this something a shoe repair shop can handle or is it something a novice can fix? It is not the best saddle but is original to the bike.

http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/a...pshxvmql1n.jpg

When I see that on a saddle I just let it go. Can't imagine anything holding that vinyl back where it ought to be.
Maybe I'm wrong. We'll see soon enough. :)

Well I can always buy a new one. Just thought I might be able to spend $5 on some glue and be done. :)

http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/y...t/CIMG0269.jpg

...it's a contact cement, so spray onto both surfaces and let dry before attaching the saddle covering.

You will probably have some issues with overspray, until you've done a few saddles and get the knack of masking.
Keep a rag with mineral spirits handy. You need to remove anything that is not under the covering.

I've done 30 or 40 saddles with this stuff, and they are all holding up fine in use.

Awesome. I will give it a shot. thank you very much. :thumb:

3M 77 spray-on glue quite strong, but not really strong enough for keeping saddle skins on, especially if the saddle is ever exposed to heat/sun. Best to use in this case is contact cement, which you apply to the cover and what you are adhering it to and let it dry to full tackiness before you glue them together. You have to get it lined up correctly though, as once it's stuck together, it will be really stuck together.......instantly, and pretty much permaneently (as you have to pretty much destroy the cover to get it off the saddle)!

Funny, I have a 1992 Paramount PDG Series 5 (purple slime) which is also a garage queen (original, practically unused tires, original bar tape), and a Vetta saddle which came unglued at the tip in the same way yours did (don't know if they are identical models).
This is good info I'll need when I get around to that project.

Barge cement or shoe goop should work. At least for a while!

There's always Shoe Goo - it's worked for me on a few saddles already. There is no overspray to deal with, either - just the standard nausea from mixed toluene/MEK solvents (mainly the toluene).

Are you flipping this bike, or riding it?

It`s red, could be my size and it is mint. There is a war going on for my soul right now. My good half says flip it, you already have 3 race bikes. The bad side is telling me keep it, hoard it, love it. Why does it always have to be so hard? LOL

From what I gather from the catalog, the frames are all the same between the series, just the colors and components change as you go up in series number.

+1 to the contact cement. I've used Weldwood with good success. A tube of Barge will work well if you want to buy a small quantity.

I agree about contact cement. I've removed that vinyl cover from 4 Vetta saddles, in the past few years, and replaced them with leather covers. I use a spray adhesive to bond the leather to the foam but then use contact cement to bond the leather edges to the plastic seat pan. I use DAP Weldwood contact cement in the small 3 oz bottle. According to DAP it is different from the 'same thing' in the larger metal cans. The nice thing is that there is no mess from overspray since you're using the brush from inside the bottle.

I do clean the seat pan real well - remove all old adhesive, clean with mineral spirits then again with isopropyl alcohol. Apply the cement, wait 15 minutes then carefully press the cover into place. No clamps or wait time required. I've been using these saddles 'in the wild' for several years now, all year long in Pennsylvania, and they're doing just great. I do not let the saddles get wet.

If'n I were you, I'd use the contact cement for your vinyl cover fix. Good luck.

...while I suppose you might be correct, I wonder if you've ever used it for this ? Because it has seemed quite permanent in a number of saddle applications for a number of years, all in use, and all exposed to the sun. It is, as stated, another form of a contact cement, in a spray can, and as such, while it is listed as low strength, in this application it is quite strong enough.

So while I have no doubt that Weldwood and a number of other contact cements will work, I would ask you why you think this one will not ?


I don't want to get into some long exchange here, but if you've used it and it's actually failed in use, it would help me to move on. If not, why state an opinion based on speculation ?

there was a thread on here about somebody restoring old vetta nylon saddles. pretty neat, they would purchase thrift store leather jackets, cut out a form and glue it with the 3M stuff, Turned out pretty nice.

found the thread:
Recover your saddle

I can tell you what not to use - Gorilla Glue. It held but I forgot that it expands as it dries and expanded from under the edge of the saddle. I used some strong clips - like clips used to keep bags closed- all around the edge of the saddle once the glue was applied.

Used both contact cement and 3M77 glue on all sorts of things through the years. Not specifically on saddles, but leather and fabric item like leather motorcycling boots, backpacks, bags, suitcases.....
My experience had been that 3M77 spray is mostly like "Spray Mount" on steroids. Used it for many years at school, then at work, building architectural models and at home for light duty bonding for items that stay inside the house, and yes, I have had the stuff fail its bond when exposed to heat, while contact cement is permanent glue, by definition.
If you look at the bottoms of many, if not most plastic based, padded saddles you will usually see evidence of manufacturers using some type of contact cement, which presents itself as brownish, hardened material at the edge where the saddle cover material meets the saddles, plastic base, especially at the nose and tail areas.....
So, at least these most critical high stress areas, contact cement would be the best to use. As already noted, use the 3M77 only at the top, foam padding/cover interface, but not at the bottom edges at the nose tail and sides, under the saddle.

Gaffers Tape.

When in doubt, whether it's glue or degreaser, lube, etc., I always start by making aerosol products my last choice.

Not to go all "greenie" here, but there's issues with quantity purchased (thus cost), overspray/messiness, cans that go "flat" or otherwise leave unused product behind in the can, clogged spray tips, broken nozzle or spray head, and so on.

To the plus side, where an even application over a large area is really needed, sprays can be the most convenient way to apply a substance.

I have to say that I see so many (many good) things today that I think should never have been put in a spray can...

Very informative thread so far.

...what sort of failure ? What sort of heat ? If it genuinely does not work, I would like to know. When I look at the saddle covering failures, I see only a failed adhesive bond, most likely due to aging. How can i tell what this is, exactly ? Brownish hardened material seems to cover a lot of ground with regard to aged adhesives. While nothing is forever, 3M advertises #77 as a permanent adhesive. I take them at their word.

Certainly they offer a number of adhesives. Something called Hi-Strength 90 is offered, but a little harder to find. A slightly less strong adhesive allows for the occasional adjustment immediately after mating, which turns out to be important when doing this repair.

Again, not to make too much of this, but my suspicion is that maybe you think that more is required in this particular usage in terms of strength than my own experience has led me to believe. If the issue is one of ease of application and use, I simply find that with proper care and masking, it is easier for me to apply and even coat of this contact cement to the irregular surfaces along the edge and underside that have come loose. I rarely remove the entire covering and start from scratch, because it seems like unnecessary work to me. And also once again, I've been using this stuff for at least six or eight years without any failures of the mating of the surfaces between cover and saddle.......you do need to make certain that the old adhesive is removed if it is too thick on the surfaces to be joined, but other than that, I don't see the problem here ?

I use what the auto upholsters use and what some others have said...contact cement in a can ( try to find the older formula) keep it away from foam as it has a tendency to melt low density stuff. The 3m spray in my opinion is not strong enough to hold over the long haul and should be used on low stress areas door panels, kick panels....IMO not bike seats
Coat both the saddle cover and the saddles base, if the base is shiny then scotch pad it a little to give the glue something to bond on,
let dry (I always apply a second coat). Lift the lining up to clear the contact on the saddle base, stretch up and over then pull down and clamp (only one shot to get this right as it will be hard to pull and reposition, if in doubt do a "dry run")....let it set up.
Yes I have used it....Good Luck
Jm2c, Ben

One case of a major 3M77 failure I had was when I applied thin padded velour upholstery on a custom center console I built for my Honda car. Followed the instructions and really "soaked" the glue into the material and on the surfaces I was adhering it on with the spray. It was OK for about two years, but during one particularly hot summer, the glue started to soften and the edges of the upholstery started lifting off. the lifting and peeling at the edges got so bad eventually that I just pulled off the console from the car out of frustration as even touching up with more 3M77 was not working and was just causing a mess. I think it is after that that I decided never to use 3M77 for any kind of heavy duty bonding. I also noticed the architexctural models I built in school where I and my classmates used 3M77 to bond plastic and paper textured finishes to building model walls, eventually started to fall/peel apart just sitting on a shelf in my apartment for a few years. They were always indoors, but I think the very dry heat in my apartment eventually affected the spray-on glue's bond.

Man, I'm pretty stoked after reading this thread.
It can be done! :D

A cheesy lycra seat cover only costs $1.00 more than the contact cement.

...sure, whatever. As stated, I have not seen this IRL.

Not certain where you are getting the "really soaked into the material according to manfr's instructions", because they go out of their way to emphasize that this is a surface bonding agent, and works better than the competition exactly because it does not soak into the material...........which is why I prefer it for saddle leathers.