OldsCOOL

If I see him again (small town) I'm going ask him if he's the guy with the Varsity.

eschlwc

yeah, there are crazy people out there that need attention. but i had one ride along with me for five minutes. i couldn't shake him. it made me mad and sad. it happened about two months ago...

i'm riding along the lake about fifteen minutes from home. it's approaching the golden hour. no need for lights yet. very little traffic. beautiful night. i'm going pretty fast on my windsor in the bike lane. i'm feeling so good.

i approach a red light where a roadie in full kit and a car are stopped, both going my direction. there isn't another car to be seen. it's a tiny intersection. on foot, i could cross it in just a couple leaps. so i slow just a bit and then run through it. no worries. it's what so many of us on bike or on foot do. we cross when we think it's safe, not when an inanimate object tells us it's safe.

the light must have changed quickly, 'cause the roadie caught up with me fairly soon. and he says to me, "you're the reason they hate us." ugh! not that trite insulting crap. and i was almost home, having such a nice evening. he ruined it.

but he didn't stop there. he started questioning my headwear (my campy cap) and asking why i ride "so angry." he's taking up the road next to the bike lane, slowing a few cars now, accosting me, and i can't shake him. i keep telling him to get lost and leave me alone. but he keeps saying he "wants to understand" my actions. it's really anoying the hell out of me, and i don't know what to do.

i take a real sharp right turn, now going out of my way, and he's right on my wheel like he knew what i would do. i go through a parking lot, and he stays with me. i take off for home on that same road again and approach a yellow light with pedestrians on my right across the street waiting for both of us to stop. i see my chance to lose him, beat the light, go behind the pedestrians, but it doesn't stop him. he almost runs the couple over, and they have a kid with them. they yell at him, and he blames me for almost running them over.

he's now frothing at the mouth. i'm not kidding. he's frothing. i couldn't believe all this was happening. i start wondering if i should just stop and ask if he wanted to fight it out. but i kept going, hoping to lose him somehow.

i finally did lose him a minute later. he started saying he didn't have any ill will against me. i called him a liar as i turned right up a hill and he stayed straight.

whew. well, that was my brush with the roadie from hell.

he's out there. don't let him see you run that intersection when no cars are around.

zazenzach

He's nutty for following you, but 100% right.

especially silly to blow past them like that, when you know the light is going to turn green soon and he'll probably lap you again.

Robofunc

These stories are bumming me out. I've been lucky enough to be mostly ignored and occasionally complimented on my old bikes.

OldsCOOL

Now that's a bona-fide, thorobred whack job.

curbtender

Hey oldbobcat, fixed your link...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYa0jpGFUeY

eschlwc

thanks for reading my story, but we disagree. when i'm on foot or on bike, i don't stop for piddly intersections when no cars are around.

no, i didn't know when the light would change. and he didn't "lap" me in the first place. the first time i had seen him that night was at that stop light. so obviously i had been riding faster than him before that. i'm not slow, even on my vintage steel.

CV-6 

I was wondering when someone would say that. And plural is correct.

T Stew

I'm there with ya. Just a humble person, and I do have a tough skin but it does bother me when others are so condescending and rude. I'm lucky (depending on how you look at it!) to live out in the country and not worry about busy multi lane roads and traffic. Plus plenty of miles of paved rail trails here to not have to hassle with traffic.

I wouldn't say he is 100% right. His assumption is that cars hate cyclists for what he did. Some (or perhaps most) probably are more annoyed at the roadie in their lane doing everything correctly rather than the guy going through on the side, even if it isn't the correct or legal thing to do. They probably could have cared less about him really.

zazenzach

you said there was a car there, waiting at the light. so it wasnt like the streets were completly empty, there were people around you.

im a firm believer that a vehicle is a vehicle is a vehicle. i wouldnt want cars blowing through lights if they thought no one was around, so cyclists shouldnt either. laws shouldnt be obeyed only when its convenient to you. this is one reason we have chris bucchere type accidents.

Lascauxcaveman 

No, he wants to lecture. I lived in Seattle for ten years, and remember a lot self-appointed nannies there. I imagine it's even worse these days.

If you did something really insane in heavy traffic I might be a little more sympathetic to his concern, but by your description, you were riding like I ride pretty much every day I ride. The only time I stop at an empty intersection is when my legs need a rest. (which is most every intersection)

3alarmer 

...don't you need to start a thread in Advocacy or something ? #awesome

eschlwc

i've only gotten two other yells/screams from roadies of the "you're the reason they hate us!" variety. so that's three in a million or so. still, it really puts me off.

yeah. you know, as i was approaching the car and cyclist sitting there at this dinky 3-way intersection*, i was thinking, 'wtf?' i mean, if the signal was out of order, would they be there indefinitely? would they still be there? would cobwebs start to form?

.

* northbound on e green lake way north at n 65th st.

1simplexnut

hee hee How do you handle that? I hope you dont become unhinged ! ( ducks for cover )

eschlwc

yeah there was a car and a cyclist waiting there side by side and i passed the cyclist on the right in the right turn lane with no one else in sight.

and we can disagree. that's fine.

i had a gf once that was a stickler for the law. i posed her a couple questions she found difficult. one was whether to save a drowning dog in a lake with a 'no swimming' sign posted. the other was choosing to break the speed limit if a crazed trucker were chasing her. she had trouble. we didn't last very long.

i don't go automatically when the light turns green and it's 'legal' for me to do so. i go when i feel it's safe and i'm not putting anyone out.

someone here has the sig, "i don't stop for no one." i like that. i think it's safer in many instances. but all our opinions are the result of all our experiences. three years ago, i was t-boned in the passenger side of a car by a truck that ran a red light. car was totaled. i walked away with only bruised ribs and broken glasses. i am very glad i wasn't on a bike just waiting for the light to turn green.

Road Fan

Pine is fine!

Oak is no joke!

OldsCOOL

Aluminium is British!

Velognome 

fify

OldsCOOL

Precisely.

EastCoastDHer

Yes. In that situation he was pretty uncool.
...He's currently the premier downhill racer. He's popular because he's from the US. I'm sure he's matured since then but his attitude really turned me off of the sport for a while, I got tired of dealing with immature people every time I went to a race.

EastCoastDHer

It's all about keeping level.

....us farm types have a corny sense of humor...oh deer!

RobbieTunes

Hmm. People wonder why motorists honk and flip us off.

Might have been safe, but two vehicles stopped means you should, too. If you expect one to follow the rules, like not running red lights, it seems appropriate to follow them, as well. While what you did might have been safe (and I tend to agree on that) you sort of rubbed their noses in it, with your blatant flouting of the very rule they were obeying, at that very time. One cyclist is trying to do the right thing by motorists, many of whom do feel cyclists have no right to be on the road, much less flouting the laws, and you pretty much thumb your nose both at him and at the motorist. Sort of a "look at me, suckers," moment. Don't tell me that didn't occur to you.

"on bike" makes you a vehicle. If you want the legal protections afforded you, then earn them, especially when others who disagree with those legal protections are sitting right there. "on foot" makes you a pedestrian, and is different, period.

Inside the car, the driver has little concept of what it's like to be outside, on a bike, with vision and perception, agility and options not limited by pavement and curbing. All of those afford us the opportunity, in theory, to watch out for ourselves, regardless of legal restrictions being imposed. Trying to convey that concept by blatantly running a light does not convey that concept.

Now, "I do not stop for no one" is a neat saying, and I admit I also do not stop for no one. However, when a car is approaching, sitting at a stop sign, a stop light, or I approach an intersection where I will expect other vehicles to obey the law, I do, as well. I've definitely been known not to, and my idea of a right turn on red, while clipped in, is an abbreviated stop, I've been yelled at by a car when I rode past a line of stopped cars at a light and then proceeded through because it was clear. My answer? "You are exactly right. I'm sorry." Everyone knows the rush that comes when, on a charity ride, traffic is stopped and you "own the road." Generally, once out of harm's way, that ownership ends and you share it, including the obligations.

At what point "clear" is clear enough differs to the cyclist and the approaching car. Today, drivers in vehicles are distracted enough watching their GPS, texting, and on cell phones. Add another infraction to the mix by a cyclist, and tragedy can result. After helping to investigate aviation mishaps and auto accidents, including some reconstruction, I can only say what seems to be the cause in 99% of them: a combination of little things, all happening or being done at an inopportune time when other little things are there to contribute.

Combine "little things" going on in a car with what seems like a minor infraction on a bike, and the result is tragic synergy.

Basically, if you want cars to respect you, act like it. If you don't, don't, but then don't complain about it. The other cyclist was right, but wrong in his approach. You were wrong, but consider it benign. Doesn't matter, you were still wrong. You'll be wrong again, no doubt, as will I and almost everyone here. We ride bikes; it's a different world. Viewed through a windshield, it is not a different world. I may well have done the same thing you did, I have no way of knowing. Generally, though, in my small rural area, I figure I could well encounter that motorist again, and I'd prefer he/she thought that bicyclists were willing to do what they have to do in their cars.

RobbieTunes

That being said, I'm not big on self-appointed "police," whether on CL bike prices or otherwise. People do what they do and earn the results.

In 1996, I decided I'd had enough of the 19 pine trees in my back yard. On Labor Day weekend, a friend and I felled every darn one of them, ground the stumps, and hauled them away. During this operation, the neighborhood nose came by to yell at me about destroying the theme of the wooded lots. I listened, said thanks, and continued, finally able to grow some grass and think about playing with my son in the back yard. For two weeks, different people came by and said "shame about the trees." I said little. On Sept 16, Hurricane Fran blew down about 25% more of the trees in the neighborhood, many of them onto neighbors' houses. None on mine. All of a sudden, my chain saws were popular. Everyone loves trees. Until they fall down.

Of course, Hurricane Floyd flooded everyone out 3 years later.

eschlwc

i don't understand this part: "Basically, if you want cars to respect you, act like it. If you don't, don't, but then don't complain about it."

doesn't apply to my post.

also, robbie, please read the last paragraph in post 65. i do what i feel is safe for me. that day that truck plowed into me, had i been on a bike, i would have been crushed. had i been on a bike and run the light when it was safe to do so and before the truck arrived, i would be fine.

not all vehicles are the same. some can take all the life out of you.

there's a really busy intersection i have to navigate on almost every ride south of my house. i have to wait at the light and make a left turn. i'm basically in the middle of the intersection just sitting there, open game. i'll run that light every time when it's safe to do so. running the light sometimes keeps one alive.

i realize that someone who sees me do this may not understand.

what's "wrong" for you is not always "wrong" for me.

Ratzinger

Is there any point in derailing this thread with a fight about whether or not cyclists should run red lights?

The roadie from hell might have been right, and it's fine that he expressed his opinion, but following someone like that is also very problematic. And if you ask someone to leave you alone and they insist on following you, that starts to potentially be a criminal act, as I understand it.