It's a corollary thought process along the lines of there being 'Yankee fan" guy, and there being "Yankee fan and Red Sox hater" guy. For some people, they are not appeased by mere association with a winner; they have to despise anything that is opposed to their chosen team/tubing/hotdog/whatever. I think it comes from a deep rooted need to be right, and better than others. I'm a que sera sera sort of person, and tubing pedigree doesn't sway my boat much. But I do find that haters get under my skin, to the point where I do whatever I can to create space between them and me, with me preferably a great distance ahead of them.

Wait, you mean it's not the name of a new diet?

Well, there's the "chew up steel and spit out nails" crowd.


One must experience the Packers-Bears situation to understand that some things are just rooted in DNA.
And here in NC, it's UNC and Duke. Nothing remotely logical about it, but it's as certain as breathing here.
On the surface, good-natured, tempered by manners and upbringing. Below that, no.

Sometimes, you just don't root for the other team, ever, until they have a guy like Walter Payton.
Then, you are torn between the appreciation of magnificence and loyalty that is in your bones.

One of the hidden virtues of carbo lite is that it's so heavy that it's no problem creating lots of space since it's easy to be the lanterne rouge on any group ride,

I had a problem with carbolite long ago but the doctor said I should ignore it and it would go away.

But think of all the French cuisine you've missed.

My first true road bike, a humble Mercier 100, had seamed straight gauge tubing and chrome rims - it rode fine. I upgraded it in the usual ways, and it was an okay rider. Fast forward 8 years, and I had gone through my final growth spurt. Being frugal, I bought a 1020-tubed machine brazed Motobecane and rode it for a decade or more. It was a road bike, nothing more.

Fast forward another 20 years, and I've ridden a host of various vintage and modern bikes...aluminum, carbon and steel. Better steel frames ride better. Better wheels ride better. Humble frames with slack geometry and decent wheels can ride very nicely indeed.

I take issue with the word "hate" as applied to a simple preference for frame type. I've never encountered true hate with regard to bikes. Not ever. I see and read about quite a bit of hate, spite, rage and emotions that, when carried to their eventual end, cause grave harm.

Back to frames. At this point, I'm unlikely to ever go back to a "carbolite" like frame again. I have too little quality riding time left and no room in my life for lesser bikes. Not hate, I've just moved beyond. Other riders may feel the same way...

I like my Carbolite 103 Pewjoe. It's my commuter, and nothing is original on it, save the paint, decals, fenders and rack. It rides really well. It's heavy, but I'm not racing on it. If feels stable with panniers, and if I would feel pretty confident doing some touring on it. I also have a 531 bike, and while I "feel" it rides better, it doesn't mean I don't enjoy the feel of my Peugeot.

I agree lugs are nice and pretty, but everyone who has bothered commenting on my commuter has loved it. The weight doesn't bother me - it's helped build up my muscles.

I don't "hate" Carbolite. I've ridden lots of different bikes, some equivalent to Carbolite.

What I do not like is CL sellers trying to sell unsuspecting customers a Carbolite like it was Reynolds 531.

I'm too old and too heavy for SLX these days, my Tange Infinity bike seems like it the right balance for me.

What people have to realize, although Carbolite 103 is quite good compared to many 1020/1030 Hi ten, High carbon, seamed tubing from the past, I think mostly because of it's slightly lighter weight but still being stiff enough, I suspect that without Peugeot's frame design/geometry, Carbolite 103 would not get as many praises given to it today.
Boy do I still miss my modded up 1982 Carbolite 103 framed Peugeot PH10S! One of the best riding bike I ever owned. It was a joy to ride. It handled well enough for any fast riding I was doing in college, Tracked laser straight and was "quiet" enough for me to ride safely just an inch or two away from my brother's rear tire for miles and miles. It also whooshed forward aggressively when I put the hammer down and the bike "sang" to me it's beautiful jet-like whistling song through its frame on long fast roads. It wasn't perfect (it flexed quite a bit at the BB on climbs and hard sprints so I got a lot of FD chain rub, but the frame still felt lively as it sprung back nicely from that flex. The bike never felt "dead" as many bikes built with "gas pipes" felt.

So many bikes.... so little time!


I got my first derailleur bike in Japan in 1964, a Bridgestone randonneur style with Huret derailleurs and Weinmann brakes. I rode it all over during my time in Japan. Shipped it back to the "States" and started riding it in 1967. Got plenty of weird looks... a 22 year old riding a bike! It got stolen. Bought a 42 Lb. Schwinn for commuting to school in 1968... It got stolen too!

My first European 10 speed was a Gitane Gran Sport. Gas pipe frame, steel rims and components and so one. At 27 lbs. it was a joy to ride (except for the ass hatchet saddle). Within a few months I was going on club rides, started using toe clips and had the chance to try out lighter bikes.

I got my first "pro" bike in 1973, an all Campy (except for MAFAC brakes) Gitane Super Corsa. I saved it for weekend rides and continued to commute of my gas pipe Gran Sport. During the 70's I built a number of beater bikes for commuting. They had gas pipe frames that I put mid range components on plus good wheels.


Yes, the frame and wheels are the most important parts of a bike with regards to ride and handling. We frequently sold first time customers lower priced models that had decent frames and good wheels but so so components, especially if they showed an interest in cycling. Legnano, Frejus and an number of other brands had Reynolds frames with alloy rims but steel cranks and so on.

Our logic was that we could put someone on a decent riding bike that was within their budget. They could upgrade to better components later on as they could afford them.

This was in contrast to some of the clunker bikes with whiz-bang components but heavy gas pipe frames.

These days I've been collecting classic bikes with very light weight frames. Not for vanity or weight weenie reasons but because they ride so smoothly and handle so well. Some of them are team bikes or team replicas from the 1980's made of light weight tubing. In my supernumerary state, I deserve the best!

I have a 1974 Motobecane Grand Jubile that I put together as a beater. The frame is 3 tubes Reynolds with light weight gas pipe forks and stays. The ride and handling are so nice that's it's in my top 10-15 favorites!


verktyg

Chas.

Definitely the '79 and later models had (practically INVENTED) what is similar to a "Triathlon/Multisport" geometry that just plain works in so many situations!

Of course tracking and (somewhat relaxed) steering stability are important, CHECK.

And an aggressive-enough seattube angle to deal with real climbs and sporting efforts, CHECK.

These aren't road-racing bikes though, so the relaxed headtube angle might not allow the sort of streamlined, close drafting that the racerly Italian bikes are known for.
But the frame weight seems respectable for such inexpensive bikes.

Two outta three ain't bad, and I ain't racing mine, anyway. The plain 103 tubing does it's job, is just along for the ride, and when I hear any slight chain rub I blame it on the old 3-pin cotterless crankset.

The Narcissism of Minor Differences | The Art of Manliness

+1

Well put... eBay sellers too... "rare", "very rare" etc. in listings for Peugeot UO-8 is another thing. More UO-8s were imported into the US than any other single model bike!

That was sort of what I was getting at in my post #23 ... Truth in advertising!

Peugeot, Gitane and Motobecane were guilty of overstating the benefits of the lugless process they started using on their lower priced models in the early 80's.

The "benefit" was that the process lowered manufacturing costs and enabled those French companies to compete (for a little while longer) with cheap bikes coming from Asia!

Ride on!

verktyg

Chas.

That's my take, too. I acquired my 103 Peugeot about the same time I got my 1020-tubed Ross Super Grand Tour Professional. Night and day between those two. In weight (by 3+ lbs) and ride quality, the 105 bike was the winner.

Robbie has shown me the light... I do "strongly dislike Carbolite with every fiber of my being". I always thought it was the seams in my jeans that was the hidden irritation, but, I guess it was seamed tubing irritation in my genes. Yeah, it's confusing, right?

I totally get that there is frustration/disappointment in dealing with misrepresented bikes for sale. So I too am guilty of harboring some negativity towards less-than top-quality used products that I have shopped for. But 103 tubing isn't the least bit disappointing on bikes that were built at the pricepoints offered. Only the Helicomatic bits and plastic front derailers truly deserved derision.

We don't know what level of improvement was offered by 103 tubing, the chemistry and processing is actually quite complicated to evaluate even when the basic performance parameters are offered up, which they weren't in the case of 103 tubing.

As for the lugless construction, it was touted as lighter, and it was. I thought it looked like crap, but the process was a very big deal for Peugeot and probably did reduce costs significantly. I was no fan of the graphics that arrived to tart up the lugless wonders, but I at least have to admit finding the lug-accentuating decals (have you seen those?) on my '79 Super Sport amusingly ridiculous (or ridiculously amusing?). Reminded me of designer jeans or something, as in gimme a break! I'm sure that those decals did also reduce costs versus hand-applied lug-lining paint(!), so the effort to constrain frame building costs was nothing if not old.

True Temper steel tubes, highly regarded, used on high end bikes, have seams. The horror!

If you still have it I'll take it!
Cheers, MAC

You do realize, don't you, that this thread has been dormant for four and a half years? Any Carbolite tubing will have rusted completely away during that time.

That's why I hate Carbolite! I was on the diet for 103 days and it just didn't work. I think the lite carbs tasted too good, I think I ate all the chips and popcorn the first day!

I suppose you are correct if you live near the ocean and store outdoors, LOL. I have a '79 UO10 frame in fine shape, It's bare metal now ready for paint and has been sitting for over a year now (indoors). Unfortunately it may be a bit big for me so a 55cm frame would be sweet! That old Pug was a sweet ride, I can say.

Cheers, MAC

One of my favoritest bikes is my upgraded '72 UO-8 with the frame sticker "inoxydioblabileble" or however it is spelled. A predecessor to Carbolite 103, I guess, unless they just renamed their own tubing. It is the onliest bike I ever bought new.

FWIW I tried the Carbolite diet once. I ended up being on two diets because when I was on just one I didn't get enough to eat.

Five years later I still hate Carbolite 103. I just wish they’d upgrade to 104.