That's the way the world works.

IMO, the bid is the equalizer, where both the buyer and seller can win. BIN only works for the seller, who will always get "top dollar", and the buyer will never get a decent deal. It flies in the face of e bays original concept...

I have a love/hate relationship with eBay. I hate the fees because they eat into my take of the sale but they are a business and have to make money. I love eBay because of the reach that it provides me. I have a few items listed on eBay and I think that I will make more off of them even w/ eBay fees because I live in a smaller market where there are not a whole lot of people I could even think about selling to locally. With eBay I can sell to a lot more people.

I think ebay should be for people who need to make a sale in a week. If you don't need it gone in a week, don't list it. Stay off ebay. Put it on amazon, put it on CL, open your own bike shop.

When you have a hundred idiots all listing the same "rare" item for 500% more than any knowledgeable person would pay for it - and it sits there month after month - ebay is ruined. And that's the worst part of ebay right now, the greedy and the clueless unwittingly colluding to fix prices at unrealistically high levels. So ripoff artist lists something way too high hoping for a sucker. Nobody buys it of course because we're not all stupid - some clueless person comes along to sell theirs, sees the other guy's asking prices - and lists it likewise. Soon there's twenty of the same "rare" items rotting on ebay all because everybody is too greedy and too stupid.

If it doesn't sell in a week, it doesn't belong on ebay. That's why ebay used to be great. If you need a certain figure just put a reserve, but don't clog up the system with a million overpriced items that are never going to sell.

For me, I don't mind the mixed buy-it-now and auction format.

For common, fairly cheap items, I'll completely ignore the auctions and only look at buy-it-now.

Why in the world would I want to sit around trying to bid on $1 brake cables just so that I might be able to get them for $0.98 on auction (although sometimes one can get good deals that way). But, often on the cheap stuff, I want it ASAP anyway, sometimes even excluding the Chinese auctions. Or, I'll want to stock up and order a dozen.

On the other hand, I might prefer bidding on a rare 20 year old derailleur rather than snagging the often inflated buy-it-now prices.

The penny auctions are always interesting. They often snag several buyers that are interested enough to want to put in a last minute bid. So, over a week or so the prices may slowly creep up... then suddenly quadruple in the last minute. Or, occasionally just sell for a penny.

Oh, one thing I'd like with the buy-it-now auctions for new products would be some kind of review system like Amazon.

I just bought a phone case for my S4 Zoom.

Technically it might work for some phones, but I won't use it for the S4 Zoom that I specifically bought it for without significant modificaions. There is absolutely no padding for the camera lens which lands right over the mounting bracket.

one thing that's great about auctions is it gives me lots of time to consider the purchase and (to me) cuts down on impulse buys. As previously mentioned, BINs are generally too high to consider in the first place. What I do not understand is "make offers" that won't budge much off a BIN total. If you are trying for volume sales to make the number; seems like turning the stuff would inspire a buyer to repeat business with that seller.

eBay is certainly a very different sort of marketplace than it was at the outset. I use it a lot less now and generally purchase BIN items when I do use it. It was certainly possible to get better deals in the pure auctions early on, but I can't say I miss the process. The convenience of simply purchasing an item may outweigh the dollars I used to save. However, that convenience is available in a vast number of places these days, so I'm less likely to visit eBay.

nazcalines got it right. There is WAAAYYY too much buyer fraud that sellers just cannot avoid. The BIN seems to give you the least amount of damage when a deal goes bad. People outright lie about receiving their items and fleabay and paypal dont seem to give a hoot that the seller has provided proof the buyer received their item.

This is what I have gathered from checking recent threads on ebay. Personally I gave up on them long ago as a seller but I might still sell some things once in a while. I've done quite well on making offers, and even making deals after auction ends. Yeah its against ebay policy but I really dont care!

Do what you can and do your best to be safe making deals.

-SP

The make offer is a bit odd.

If I see the option, inevitably I'll send in an offer. Generally not a pennies on the dollar offer, but something reasonable.

I generally only send in ONE offer. Sometimes the seller will reply with a "split the difference" offer which I'll take 50% of the time, and leave 50% of the time... so much for splitting the difference. If they drop the price by 1%.... I suppose it depends on whether I would have bought the item if there wasn't the make offer option, but sometimes I feel insulted by insincere "make offer" options.

99% of the time I'll IGNORE the reserve price auctions. It is like shill bidding. No sense just bidding against the seller. If they want a minimum starting bid, then just enter the minimum starting bid.

I'm dealing with this right now as there's 100% buyer protection but basically nothing for sellers. I just recently sold a satellite DVR receiver and the buyer kept the HDMI cable and sent me back some random power cord and pulled the warranty sticker off and claimed it wasn't as described. Ebay instantly put the money that used to be in my account on hold. Was on the phone with half the population in India yesterday until I demanded to speak to everyone's supervisor enough times that they said "would you like to contacted by someone from eBay America?" I think every time I call I get passed onto 4-5 different people.

There isn't a single ounce of seller protection and the buyer is pretty much free to do whatever they want and not get any repercussion from it and still get there money back no matter what. So the buyer gets his money back, gets a free HDMI cable and leave me with a return shipping bill and a receiver that has a voided warranty now. I said to the fellow I was talking with yesterday "so what your saying as a buyer is that I can buy something...keep something from it from what I bought, break it and demand a return and get my money back? Because this is what happened to me and I'll get my money back also since I'm the buyer and I've got basically 100% buyer protection and the seller gets screwed over?" He could only tell me "well that's your opinion" and nothing else. I said it's not my opinion as I'm dealing with it right now!

I haven't been this irate in quite some time.

Actually if a buyer is reporting an unusual number of sellers (ie. they keep opening cases for refunds) ebay will investigate - and they may suspend the buyer's account. Of course they have to be a serial offender before this happens, if it's just some jerk who randomly decides "hey I want to keep this" one time - good luck. Also if a buyer is trying to extort a seller by saying they will leave this or that feedback depending on what you do to appease them you can report them and they may get their account suspended. But they have to literally be making that threat, not simply implying it.

In my experience this isn't true. This buyer has numerous complaints, all under "positive" feedback, since that is all you can leave as a seller. If sellers were able to leave neg feedback, I would've never sold to the scammer.
flypig522 on eBay

With eBay...and I do a lot of dealing there...it is NOT 100% buyer protection as many of you are claiming. Now, in any given situation, it may be that way...but...it is not 100%.

If you always ship with tracking numbers (and signatures for items above $100), then, more often than not, eBay is pretty fair to the seller...you have proof that the item arrived...that is what they look for. I have had several times where the buyer claimed that they did not receive the item...and eBay, while not "siding" with me as the seller, did not make me pay for it either...I guess they actually gave the buyer their money, but they did not take it out of my account.

Also...the current buyer scam is to want a partial refund. Simple...just say no...tell them to ship it back to you (at their expense, per eBay policy) and you will give them a full refund. I have had several people try this...and when I said no, they simply went away. If they then want to leave negative feedback (one tried this), eBay stepped in and did away with their feedback.

Finally, on BIN versus auction...I think that eBay has moved to where both are viable paths...for both buyer and seller. For most items, BIN is what I use (with a best offer option)...I set the BIN as close to what I think FMV is for the item (maybe a tad on the high side, honestly)...and then allow the market to decide the price...BIN with best offer is very similar to auctioning, except that it offers both the buyer and seller the option to "set the price" to some degree. What I find on this is that most buyers come in and make an offer to for LESS than 1/2 the price...to the point of, at times, being offensive! But...then I have also developed some pretty loyal buyers that know me and buy a lot of parts from me. They typically make valid offers...and I am often pretty accepting...particularly when they are buying a collection of items.

With auctions...I use them when I am uncertain about the price of an item...or I have a "sale" item. I often will box up a collection of "parts only" type pieces...many people can use some of these...I will open the bidding at about $1.00 (I like to use random numbers here!)...and I charge for shipping on these items (99% of what I sell has "free shipping"). At a starting bid in the $1 area, I cannot afford to free ship...as it would put me way upside down on these. I hope people find these to be kind of fun...as they are like the "Box o' Crap" stuff here, but maybe a bit more useful.

My other use of auctions is when I am uncertain of where an item should be priced...or the market shows wild variations...I often do this for frame/fork's that I am selling...set a reasonable opening bid (both from what I can find for a price and for what I need to consider for the piece) and then let the auction run its course...a true "market value" operation (in my opinion).

Well...that is my $.02...for what it is worth...but...I have done nearly 1000 transactions this year...with pretty good success...and very little pain (although I have to admit, I do have some)...

When I ship International, I insure the item with Ebay, and require signature by using USPS Priority Express which will track up to delivery. I also go to USPS to have email sent to the buyer and myself, and that way I can watch if the item is sitting in Customs, if so I contact the buyer with a link to USPS to remind the buyer at the item is waiting for pickup. If the item is over $100 Domestically, signature and insurance. It works, but if by chance you have to deal with Ebay or Paypal support and the support person is not cooperating, gently hang up while talking, and call again. Dial and speak to another support person, claiming that either the other individual hung up or you got disconnected (but first get the name and call reference number for documentation). Never use vulgarities, or threats! Always speak with a smile

Not to be in disagreement but I've been on ebay for 15 years and I really don't have a problem as a buyer with the current format. Over that span I have bought everything from musical instruments to complete bikes and all sorts of stuff in between. I can understand the issues that a seller might have and I imagine that one day there will be very little used and mostly new BIN. I am actually surprised that there are still as many items directly from China for potential knockoffs.

As for high prices, I have said this before, you can't champion classic and vintage and want to buy at old and used prices.

For most things I still like the auctions over only BIN. It is still fun to manually snipe at thr last moment. Outbid someone by $.50 within your max bid or lose an auction by $.50 on something you didn't really care that much for. There is something about not bidding on something only to see it go for next to nothing that gets me to at least put in a token bid. I know that one day I'll be on the other side when I want to liquidate my extra parts. Then I'll start moaning about selling on ebay and set everything up as BIN.

BIN is great for something you just need to get and a LBS doesn't have it. Offers are nice if it is something that you want and the BIN price is not bad, getting it for less is always a plus.

John

eBay is competing with Amazon, wants all the B2C business it can get. Private sellers have found that bidding wars don't happen that often any more, if you list low that may be a price you're stuck with. Sniping software has made an impact, I do zero live bids anymore, it's all about the last 6 seconds and pre-programmed bids. Bottom-line, eBay has gotten too big. 30+K employees is alot of mouths to feed, it means your business model has to be more of an immediate transaction marketplace, less of an auction house, less fun.

Private auction sellers have lost ground, no doubt. Lots of risk, and much less upside.

I have never done pre-programmed bidding, although there were times I wished I had set it up. On things I want to go after I'll watch and assess how the bidding is going do a little more research and decide what to bid, do the countdown, and place the bid. More times than not I've won something that I really wanted or it went so far out of sight that sniper software would have made no difference. There are other times when it comes right down to it that I have changed my mind and I decide not to bid and I really don't want to have to keep track of software that is out there making bids on my behalf.

John

I have a friend that just got scammed on the partial refund deal. She sold a sweater, and buyer claimed it had a stain and wanted a partial refund. Like you, I advised my friend to just go with a return instead.

Well, she caved into the partial refund, sold a sweater for $30, gave the buyer $15 back. Three days later, she sees the same sweater being sold by that buyer, no mention of any defect, for $200.......

To the general question, I don't eBay has changed that much. Its just a service. What has changed is that active sellers have wised up. In addition, people in the past that just used it rarely to sell some oddball item have now either wised up with experience, or given up on selling on eBay.

You should buy it for her and then claim you never received it.

I agree in part what you're saying, but there also seem to be times when the buyers are wanting a deal on any and everything. There IS a decent amount of rare stuff out there, but of course it's not worth 500% more than the market. It does go in swings.

I have a pantographed chainring up on Ebay right now. I have it at what I believe to be a reasonable BIN: $50. Heck, it's a near-new Campagnolo Super Record chainring - without a panto it would normally be worth that. I would pay it myself. My BIN also includes Best Offer and I received one shortly after I relisted the auction.

Now I know in this case I have to have the right person see my auction - the panto is fairly uncommon, as are the bikes. Not a super-bike like a Masi or De Rosa or Colnago, but a nice Italian frame nonetheless. Anyhow, I get a Best Offer from this guy for $20. Only twenty smackers for a Super Record big ring with barely any use?

The kicker? The buyer is also a seller - and he's got a well-used, Priori-pantographed, black-anodized Super Record chainring listed for nearly $150!

So I will keep listing for 30 days until that one person who has a Freschi wants to add a little-used piece of bling to his/her bike for a respectable, honest price. And then I'll see if they may also be interested in a pair of pantographed Campy down tube gear levers to match

DD

I'll agree that for truly rare items, ebay is not the place to sell. Because most people don't know what it is, and those who are looking might not be checking ebay every week for that particular item.

I was hoping all the new stuff went to Amazon. Then ebay can go back to what made it famous.

I very much prefer the BIN option as a buyer, but I will bid as well if I want something. However I hate hidden reserves. Totally stupid. Shouldn't even be allowed. If you have a minimum price you're willing to accept, make that the starting bid. If it's reasonable, you will be fine. If not, well, there's your problem right there.

I still have fun with it.

Got my Brooks Flyer NIB for about half of retail; hard to argue with that...

For me as a rare buyer, it's the thrift-store version of Amazon. If I know what I want, there it is. If there's any thrill it's in discovering sometimes that such a thing exists (like the 20" road bikes).