embankmentlb

Has anyone successfully converted a Campagnolo Victory or Triomphe rear mech to a long cage using the long cage from a Suntour or Shimano rear mech? I have never tried this. They may be totally not compatible. Who has insite?
I am looking for the elusive Victory LX or Leisure rear mech with no luck. Looking for a way to make the wide gear range from work. Thanks!!

JohnDThompson 

I doubt it would work without modification. You might have better luck using the Soma "Nuova Retro" Rally cage:



Soma Nuova Retro Derailleur Cage Plates

I don't have parts here to test, but there's a good chance that the cage mount is more similar to the Triomphe/Victory than a Shimano cage would be.

embankmentlb

Thanks John!
That is probably what I need.
I have 52 /35 chain rings and 14-30 freewheel. That is 33 teeth difference.
Looking for a way to wrap that amount of chain yet keep the victory mech.

JohnDThompson 

If worst comes to worst, you could get a Nuovo Record derailleur and put the Soma cage on that.

verktyg 

My 1987 Bianchi Giro came with a Campy Victory gruppo with 53-42 chainrings and a 13-26T 6 speed FW.

I'm running 51-36 chainrings and a 13-28T with the standard Victory rear derailleur. It works great.

I had to play around chain length a little to get everything working right. After several hours of messing with the Campy Synchro "non-indexing" shifters I gave up and neutered the right lever so that it works well friction shifting.



https://www.flickr.com/photos/282672...57623631366584

You may be able to get by with your existing Victory rear derailleur but you may have to use a smaller freewheel.

verktyg

Chas.

embankmentlb

Thanks verktyg for sharing this. I only played with the setup. One problem was the rear mech cage would contact the largest cogs on the freewheel. The other was chain chain wrap.
Based on this I will look at the situation again over the holidays.
Very cool Bianchi!
How do you like the Victory group?

verktyg 

I've run into problems with narrow 6 speed and 7 speed freewheels when trying to use them with standard cage length derailleurs that were made for 5 speed and standard width 6 speed freewheels.

When shifting up to larger sprockets the inside of the cage can rub or hang up on the larger sprockets.

Using a narrow chain made for 6-7-8 speed freewheels helps. Also adjusting the number of links in the chain.

One other thing, there is a part in the rear of Victory derailleurs that allows you to adjust the chain tension slightly. DON'T LOOSE IT!



ADDENDUM
@embankmentlb Here's an explanation of the tension adjustment part which moves the upper pulley closer or further away from the large sprocket.




I like the Victory and Triomphe cranks. Aside from allowing the use of chainrings down to 35T (uber rare), I like the looks of them.

The Nuovo Record/Super Record and late model Gran Sport cranks date back to 1958 and were copied by at least half a dozen other companies.

OH NO! Not another Campy crankset!


The Victory and Triomphe rear derailleurs work as badly as the Nuovo Record, Super Record, Gran Sport and so on which is a design that dates back to ~1951.

Suntour and Shimano drop arm derailleurs came out in the early 70's. Campy finally adopted the design in the late 80's.




The rest of the components work fine. Hope this helps...

verktyg

Chas.

embankmentlb

I recently picked up the new 35 tooth chainring on eBay. It was listed as a bmx part......
i got lucky on that one!
I am kind of into the Victory build at the moment and the challenge of adapting the low gearing.

verktyg 

Great find. I've been lucky to pick up some 35, 36 and 38T 116mm BCD Victory/Triomphe and Gran Sport chainrings. I have 2 bikes with Victory gruppos plus I've used the cranks on an all SR bike and a mixed Campy Gios.



I enjoy antagonizing Campianista NR/SR purists....

Enjoy you new build.

verktyg

Chas.

embankmentlb

Very nice bikes!!!

verktyg 

Blasphemy and sacrilege!!!

Heretic that I am... I'm going directly to the inner circle of hell! (Dante's Inferno)




Campagnolo introduced the Victory and Triomphe gruppos in 1983.

They were attempting to regain market share in the lucrative mid-range component market that they lost to the Japanese makers.

Only a few European bike manufactures were using the low end Campy Nuovo Gran Sport gruppo with the uber ugly cheap looking rear derailleur. Shimano and Suntour were eating Campagnolo's lunch in that arena.




The Nuovo Record gruppo was long in the tooth, little changed in ~20 years. The basic rear derailleur design went back to 1951!

Super Record components were just an over priced gussied up version of the Nuovo Record gruppo with some lightening and titanium parts.

The Triomphe gruppo was targeted to replace Nuovo Gran Sport components while the Victory gruppo was supposed to replace the Nuovo Record gruppo.

In 1984-5 C-Record was supposed to replace the Super Record gruppo as Campy's top of the line offering.




Several things derailed those plans:

The first was that Campianistas were so locked into the stogy appearance of NR/SR components that they totally rejected the looks of the new gruppos. The designs of some or most of the new components were drastic departures from the easily recognizable 20 year old appearances of NR and SR components.

Next, the wholesale prices for the new gruppos were much more expensive than for NR and SR gruppos. Add to that, Campagnolo lost control of their OEM distribution network in Europe. NR and SR production was supposed to have stopped by the mid 80's but there was so much inventory of the old components in the pipeline that full Campy NR bikes were being sold as late as 1988!

Last but probably most important, most European bike manufacturers were reluctant to switch from known products to gruppos that hadn't been proven successful in the market place.

Also, the Pro Peloton was still using Super Record gruppos past the mid 80's. In the US the pro bike set were/are the most slavish adherents to style, fashion and what the pros are doing than possibly any other sporting activity!!!

After 1985 some European bike makers like Bianchi and Gitane started offering a few mid range models with Triomphe and Victory gruppos.

By the late 80's Campy threw in thew towel started offering a wider assortment of gruppos with modern designs to try to compete against Shimano. They also finally switched to drop arm rear derailleur designs like those used by Shimano and Suntour.




BTW, the geometry on the Triomphe and Victory rear derailleurs is almost the same as was used on the 1966 Nuovo Record derailleurs (which was about the same as Camp's 1951 design). They had the same cage geometry as the 2nd generation Super Record derailleurs which allowed a 28T freewheel sprocket instead of 26T of the NR and early SR derailleurs. The early C-Record derailleurs were about the same.



This is a very loose analysis of the history of Campagnolo rear derailleurs during the 1980's. I was riding off road most of the time from the 80's until 2006. Lots of things happened during those years that I was into.

The important thing to note is where the Triomphe and Victory gruppos fit into the scheme....

verktyg

Chas.

michaelcogburn

Hey embankmentlb, i hope this video tutorial might be helpful for you. It shows how to convert Campagnolo Victory or Triomphe rear mech to a long cage using the long cage from a Suntour or Shimano rear mech.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_2brsGuqhQ

embankmentlb

Just the thing I am looking for!!!
Except the vid didn't show that.....

embankmentlb

I remember the advertising for V&T back in the day. The stuff had a very classic look that I liked. It however also looked dated next to Shimano. Lots of lessons learned there. Great post!

verktyg 

Thanks...

I was riding off road most of the time from the 80's until 2006. Lots of things happened during those years that I missed so I'm not that knowledgeable about road components from that era..

verktyg

Chas.

embankmentlb

Well, I did it!
After finding some NOS Victory long cages on eb@y & some parts from a Chorus mech I was able to pull together the Long Cage Victory rear mech!
I am kind of proud. I don't had the large freewheel yet but it make it possible to run my 52-35 chainrings.

Lascauxcaveman 

Oh, man. 35 up front, 34 out back; you're gonna get up some crazy hills on that machine!

embankmentlb

I may not go as large as 30. I am interested in testing the limits of this setup.

davester

Would you mind explaining what you did (and perhaps your parts sources) in detail. A good friend of mine is in exactly the same boat as you. He's ordered a 36T Miche chainring from Hilary Stone to go on his Victory crankset but is probably going to have issues wrapping enough chain and having interference with his 13-28 FW. Currently there don't seem to be any 51T Victory-compatible chainrings on the internets so we can't follow verktyg's lead.

Dave Mayer

Yesterday I was riding a Victory crankset with 36-50 rings. This 'vintage compact' is very pleasing for the rolling riding that I do.

Aside: when you first install a Victory or C-Record crankset, carry a 7mm hex key for the first few rides, for nothing else but peace of mind. I once had a Victory crankarm let loose on a maiden ride. My fault - installation error. But try to find a 7mm key in the field? Nope.

Anyway, I had a 13-28 cassette in the back, and my 8-speed era Campy short-cage rear derailleur had enough wrap (barely) to deal with the range. Any wider and I'd have to go mid or long-cage.

10 years ago, Ebay was flush with Campy 35 and 36 tooth 116BCD rings. Now, it is one of my pleasures in life to stare at my stack of these NOS rings sitting cozy in their Italian paper sleeves.

davester

So how much do you think you'd be willing to let one of these go for?

embankmentlb

It's a bit complicated to go the way i did with Campy parts. Lots of time looking through Campy part diagrams.
You need:
Victory / Triomphe rear mech
Victory or Triomphe long cages
A Chorus 1st generation rear mech for its lower pivot bolt.

Long story short, the long cage victory pulley cages attache with a long bolt that goes through the upper pulley wheel. This is almost the same bolt used in the Chorus mech. The inner bushing needed to be sleeved with brass rod. It's a project for sure.

thats what I did....

Heatherbikes

I have not tried shimano or sun tour. The rally/ soma fab long copies will not work, different generation. I had bought the soma fab one. I do have an old nuevo record and super record rear derailleur for other projects so the cage will get used.
I had a horrible time with this! I did buy a lovely home shop made copy of the rally long cage hoping it would work, but again, no. My husband somehow made it work with lots of swearing, we visited many machine shops for further mutilation to fit the victory set up. All was well, until now and it isn't fine. I cannot ride very far without the rear derailleur acting up. The metal was thin and my husband has worried about the safety of it. I'm not sure if the cage is at fault, or just that the drivetrain needs a total overhaul from a nasty winter. I would LOVE to find the proper 'leisure' long cage plate, oh please may I please find one?

Heatherbikes

So, with the dodgy long cage, I have an IRD 7 speed freewheel 13-32 and the original cranks with the 52 and 48t. I wish I had gotten the 6 speed freewheel because my 1984 cramerotti doesn't have the room for 7 speed really. Other than that it has been great to climb hills more easily, although I had gotten used to climbing with the original victory set up....The freewheel maybe is giving up, definitely behaving badly. And now the chainrings are wearing out! The options are very limited and expensive, so I might be selling the cranks and putting another crankset on with more available options.

I am glad you found the long cage of your dreams.

crank_addict

Resurrection.
Perhaps this may assist.

Using a Campagnolo Triomphe short cage w/ 14 - 30t six speed, 52 - 40t chainrings. (Btw: 2018 and finding the 'original' Campy, under 40t for this BCD is getting pricey.) Pushing the limit but the cheap stamped steel backside cage plate looks like havoc awaiting to snag something. No 'b' adjustment on this unit.

Mounts much vertical and really should be used on a long horizontal axle dropout allowing more chain on a cog. Or consider the derailleur / dropout mount stop. There may be some different casted positioning for these two derailleurs.

Swapped the rear derailleur to a Victory short cage. Reset the 'b' adjustment, fiddly and tiny casting at the pivot mount. Doesn't allow much but worthy to inspect. This derailleur has a better backside cage plate. Shifting improved.

Lastly, both above have replaced plastic Crapagnolo jockey pulleys for no slop aluminum / sealed bearing type.