Polite freewheel thread.
 

I was thinking why not do an actual freewheel thread where we can discuss our encounters with freewheels and talk about methods that do and don't work depending on our needs, I'll get the ball rolling(oh and let's keep it polite this time.. )

So recently I had a project I wanted to single speed, but didn't want to respace/redish a wheel sooo instead, I took apart a freewheel, removed the cogs and spacers and put the lockring cog back on.. almost worked, but the chainline was too far off. Luckily for me it was a HG shimano setup, so tear down and rebuild was relatively easy thanks to two chain whips and some minor elbow grease!

So what's your freewheel story?

Since we had cog boards in the shop "back when" building a custom FW or just replacing a single worn cog was easy and cost effective for 5-7 cog designs as the tech changed.
Still have custom 14-18 5 cog, 13-23 6 cog and 12-20 7 cog, although none are still in service they got the job done back when.

edit: That being said the Shimano cassette design at 7 cog and up w/ a stronger axle and the ability to swap gearing w/o a bench vise was a permanent game changer, no nostalgia here for the FW.
Too bad a Cog Board isn't available for 10-11 cog designs today to replace that worn 16T......

-Bandera

You must be referring to a previous freewheel thread. I concur.

Assuming yours is a freewheel setup, I'd recommend you re-dish and re-space. This results in a stronger real wheel, in addition to more even distribution of stress across the axle.

My story - once upon a time, I had a Sachs-Maillard 7-speed freewheel with broken teeth on the smallest cog. As it so happened, I also needed a 6-speed freewheel for the Carlton I was rebuilding.

I'd managed to un-thread the smallest and second-smallest cogs (which were nested together), using a pair of chain-whips, but I just could not remove the smallest from the second smallest. The chain whips were too close, and the missing teeth on the smallest cog meant that my leverage options were limited.

Out came the Dremel tool and the 20" huge adjustable wrench. I used the Dremel cutting wheel to chop some teeth off of the smallest cog, such that there were two parallel flat spots to wrench against. It then became a simple matter of screwing the second cog to the bench top, then using the 20" adjustable to break the innermost cog with the chopped-off teeth loose.

We had a good customer years ago named Buzzy. Budding racer and a helluva nice guy. Bike nut, like the rest of us. He got a great deal on a beautiful set of Campy NR high flange hubs. Spent hours hand polishing them and bought spokes from us to build them up and when it came time for a freewheel he noticed the markings on the hub denoting French thread. Poor guy had to special order the body and build it up from our SunTour cog boards. He wound up spending $60 on it. Does not sound like a lot these days but it was still possible to pay that for a month's rent at that time.

I was gifted some Regina Oro cogs from [MENTION=29368]rootboy[/MENTION] a long, long time ago. I haven't yet worn out any of my current stock of 5-speed Oros, so the cogs still sit in my spares box awaiting use one fine day :)

DD

With a freewheel, you know darn well you've shifted.

So, you're getting younger?

had to say it....I mean, you retired from "no mercy" banter.....you have to miss it.

^ Sometimes I feel like an odometer starting at zero and going backwards; sometimes I feel like 500,000 miles on the clock of a Datsun B-210 :)

DD

For those who like math, here's a set of formulas you can paste into an Excel spreadsheet and it will give you the most evenly-spaced cog combination.


[TABLE="width: 1000, class: grid"]
[TR]
[TD]Cassette builder[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]# cogs[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Top[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Bottom[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]to[/TD]
[TD]28[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]ideal ratio[/TD]
[TD]=(E3/C3)^(1/(A3-1))[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]gear[/TD]
[TD]ideal[/TD]
[TD]step[/TD]
[TD]cog[/TD]
[TD]actual ratio[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]=A10+1[/TD]
[TD]=IF(A9<=$A$3,$C$3*$B$6^($A$3-A9),FALSE)[/TD]
[TD]=ROUND(B9-B8,0)[/TD]
[TD]=IF(B9=FALSE,0,C9+D8)[/TD]
[TD]=IF(B9=FALSE, "no gear",D10/D9)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]=A11+1[/TD]
[TD]=IF(A10<=$A$3,$C$3*$B$6^($A$3-A10),FALSE)[/TD]
[TD]=ROUND(B10-B9,0)[/TD]
[TD]=IF(B10=FALSE,0,C10+D9)[/TD]
[TD]=IF(B10=FALSE, "no gear",D11/D10)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]=A12+1[/TD]
[TD]=IF(A11<=$A$3,$C$3*$B$6^($A$3-A11),FALSE)[/TD]
[TD]=ROUND(B11-B10,0)[/TD]
[TD]=IF(B11=FALSE,0,C11+D10)[/TD]
[TD]=IF(B11=FALSE, "no gear",D12/D11)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]=A13+1[/TD]
[TD]=IF(A12<=$A$3,$C$3*$B$6^($A$3-A12),FALSE)[/TD]
[TD]=ROUND(B12-B11,0)[/TD]
[TD]=IF(B12=FALSE,0,C12+D11)[/TD]
[TD]=IF(B12=FALSE, "no gear",D13/D12)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]=A14+1[/TD]
[TD]=IF(A13<=$A$3,$C$3*$B$6^($A$3-A13),FALSE)[/TD]
[TD]=ROUND(B13-B12,0)[/TD]
[TD]=IF(B13=FALSE,0,C13+D12)[/TD]
[TD]=IF(B13=FALSE, "no gear",D14/D13)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]=A15+1[/TD]
[TD]=IF(A14<=$A$3,$C$3*$B$6^($A$3-A14),FALSE)[/TD]
[TD]=ROUND(B14-B13,0)[/TD]
[TD]=IF(B14=FALSE,0,C14+D13)[/TD]
[TD]=IF(B14=FALSE, "no gear",D15/D14)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]=A16+1[/TD]
[TD]=IF(A15<=$A$3,$C$3*$B$6^($A$3-A15),FALSE)[/TD]
[TD]=ROUND(B15-B14,0)[/TD]
[TD]=IF(B15=FALSE,0,C15+D14)[/TD]
[TD]=IF(B15=FALSE, "no gear",D16/D15)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]=A17+1[/TD]
[TD]=IF(A16<=$A$3,$C$3*$B$6^($A$3-A16),FALSE)[/TD]
[TD]=ROUND(B16-B15,0)[/TD]
[TD]=IF(B16=FALSE,0,C16+D15)[/TD]
[TD]=IF(B16=FALSE, "no gear",D17/D16)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]=A18+1[/TD]
[TD]=IF(A17<=$A$3,$C$3*$B$6^($A$3-A17),FALSE)[/TD]
[TD]=ROUND(B17-B16,0)[/TD]
[TD]=IF(B17=FALSE,0,C17+D16)[/TD]
[TD]=IF(B17=FALSE, "no gear",D18/D17)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]=A19+1[/TD]
[TD]=IF(A18<=$A$3,$C$3*$B$6^($A$3-A18),FALSE)[/TD]
[TD]=ROUND(B18-B17,0)[/TD]
[TD]=IF(B18=FALSE,0,C18+D17)[/TD]
[TD]=IF(B18=FALSE, "no gear",D19/D18)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]=IF(A19<=$A$3,$C$3*$B$6^($A$3-A19),FALSE)[/TD]
[TD]=ROUND(B19-B18,0)[/TD]
[TD]=IF(B19=FALSE,0,C19+D18)[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Perhaps: Into what cog , and will it stay there under max effort uphill or at all?
Pre-Index shifting is a footnote for Classic hardware enthusiasts. I use mine today, it's clunky still and slow by comparison by >1984 tech.

Pre-Shimano indexing in the mid-80's selecting the gear for contesting a sprint was by feel, which despite the assumptions of those who never did it "back when" shoulder to shoulder in competition the much improved by SIS certainty of gear engagement was quick, effortless and crucial.

All other Mfgs tried to follow: Campag w/ miserable results and Sun Tour.

-Bandera

Suntour ratcheting shifters give you very precise performance. 3 to 4 clicks to move my Suntour GT up the 7 speed Hyperglide freewheel/cassette and I know by sound that I'm there. You'll know to trim.
You wanna compete or be a weekend warrior, go indexed and lead out. Otherwise friction is a truly pleasant ride.

An impolite FW:

http://users.rcn.com/jimmuller/pics/BustedFreewheel.jpg

In the end in my story I ended up with a 2x7 mostly 105 drivetrain and it was served much better. I do like your use of the dremel there btw.

The long and skinny, redish and respace wasn't worth it.

I had a FW I wanted to clean and rebuild but only have one chain whip (home made but did not want to make another and I don't have four hands). I also have plenty of scrap chain from 'curb appeal' bikes. I realized I could take a length of scrap chain, wrap that all they way around the large cog and clamp (mash) the two ends together in the vice jaws. Then I could put the proper whip on the small cog and turn it free. The vice held the FW solid while I concentrated on the whip and the small cog.

I'm having no trouble opening up FWs and re-lubing them. Easy, really. Just take your time and work over a tray or an egg box to catch what drops.

...that eventually regained its dignity!

[MENTION=360474]Prowler[/MENTION] I'm proud of you for servicing your own. Good man!

I have more freewheel stories then I can really remember. :p One that comes to mind was centered around IIRC a Regina America freewheel, which was one of their last models.

A customer had sent one for service, which it sorely needed. When I opened it up one of the spacers for the outer bearing race/retaining ring self destructed. By this point Regina (as did Shimano) used steel spacers that were thiner than aluminum foil, and inevitably they rip and tear when the ring is removed.

The challenge was that without that one very thin spacer, the freewheel would bind. None of the spacers I had on hand either fit or spaced it correctly. The customer sent another Regina America to harvest for spacers. It was a no go. He bought another on ebay and had the seller send it to me directly. Again a no go.

Finally I experimented with aluminum foil and somehow managed to space it to acceptable tolerances. In the end, a job which should have taken 1-2 days ended up lasting a month! :eek:

I have not had a bad FW experience. The most rewarding wrenching moment I can recall was the first time removing one. The FW was a Suntour 6sp with the 2-prong configuration. With no bench vise I installed the tool and used an extra large breaker bar to the tool and standing the wheel up with the bar facing me (on the left side) dragging up against the bench, one good tug and it came off.

The best part of this accomplishment was now being able to service the rear hub......and throw the dork disk like it was designed for.

Freewheels Forever! A few years ago, I had a thought that new or serviceable freewheels would be impossible to get in the future, so I stocked up on NOS or good used freewheels from ebay. Now I have good ones on each bike and about 20 extra ones.

I still enjoy riding 5-blocks in the range of 14-22 or 13-21 but have several 6-blocks in the 13-24 and 13-26 range. If they don't shift a well as a (blah-blah-blah), or the gear range isn't as wide as a (blah-blah-blah), who cares, that's part of the ride.

The trick I've seen for converting a multi-speed freewheel to a single speed is to use a lathe to make some alloy spacers to put the gear (or two) you want in the center and then turn the teeth off the smallest cog to make it into a retainer nut. Although, really, the single freewheels on ebay aren't terribly pricey.

I like riding the Colnago in our hilly town with the 13/26 but really like the looks of the backend with this attached:

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h8...67B6A78A44.jpg

To risk being impolite, :twitchy: that Perfect needs a Spa treatment! :p Jus' sayin' :innocent: Give it an early Christmas present! ;)

This was from last summer during the restoration.

So would an impolite freewheel thread have a lot of pictures of dirty freewheels?

Here is a recent shot of the FW on the Colnago. This is riding condition, not a poser pic.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h8...AFE3C33143.jpg

I have one big frustration with freewheels -- the availability of 26T, which is my perennial favorite low-gear cog, because it works with a short cage derailleur and, with a 42T chainring (144mm BCD minimum), it gives me a low enough bottom gear to handle any of my local hills.

Back in the 1960s and 1970s, 13-26 and 14-26 freewheels were very common, but they seem to have disappeared on the open market, and all of the new ones are 28s, instead.

Fortunately, I have my own pretty well-supplied DIY freewheel cog (and chainring) board at home.

That would be the Perfect (so to speak) Christmas present for a C&V enthusiast on your list. :)