jimmuller 

I took the Grandis frame over to Harris today so one of their good mechanics could press the headset into the head tube. (The crown race is split so it goes on without tools.) When I mounted the fork to the frame I was astonished. The steerer tube is much longer w.r.t. the HT than any bike ever seen. Usually I worry that the headset's stack height isn't small enough, because if it is too big the top cap won't thread on. In this case the stack height was 11mm too small. The headset is a VO Grand Cru with height 41mm. Other stack heights I've seen are smaller and maybe mm or so larger. But 11mm?? Okay, I can add 12mm or so of spacers, but it's a bit of a surprise. It makes me wonder what kind of headset it had originally. I would have thought a nice Campagnolo.

Any of you ever seen anything quite like that?

fender1

Maybe the original owner left the steerer long for a more upright ride? Did the frame ship from Walnut Creek CA.?

sloar 

Cut it! I've had good luck threading the top race on and cutting the steer tube. That way when you remove the threaded race it will clean the threads. Just make sure to measure twice.

verktyg 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/282672...57625424641013

Read descriptions under pictures.



The PO may have wanted to have the bars a little high so left the steerer longer. That seems to be the most logical reason.

I've seen modern bikes with as much as 2" of spacers on the steerer... It looks sort of normal.

verktyg

Chas.

jimmuller 

Thanks. I'd take sloar's suggestion but I'm loath to cut anything that can't be glued back on. And since I've never been especially limber I wouldn't mind keeping the stem a bit higher anyway. It's just that my experience is limited enough that I've never seen one with this big a difference.

Fender, it did not come from Walnut Creek. But it would seem to have been someone's custom choice.

Lascauxcaveman 

I say, stack 'em as high as you want to!


Honestly, unless you can't get the stem down as far as you like, it's WAY easier to buy four bucks worth of spacers on the big auction site than it is is to do a clean cut on your steer tube. And a too-long steer tube is better than one that's too short.

RobbieTunes

I have never quite understood the lack of standardization on parts like this.

Wait. I do. It's just because.

easyupbug 

My Giant 980c (one of the few I regret selling) and most I have seen came with a couple inches of a single spacer with a nice Giant logo on them. I assumed it was standardization of a couple or few different steerer tubes. Mine was a 58 so the fork must have fit up to 62 or so.

jimmuller 

You mean as high as you need to, I would think. In fact, I had already placed an "order" for some spacers as the simple solution. I like simple solutions as long as they don't require too big a compromise. I just started this thread because half an inch overrun was more than I've ever seen.

Actually, the real reason is I like starting threads, but I'd never admit it.

The Golden Boy 

Yeah, until you start looking for something that was posted in one of your threads- and suddenly you've got pages of them to go through...

tarwheel 

Put some spacers in there. Better too long than too short.

jamesdak 

I'm with the others, just use spacers and leave it long. I have a bad back so I ride with my bars at saddle height. So I've had to pass up several good deals on used bikes due to the steerer being too short to work for me without some crazy kind of stem. The last missed by was a wonderful Serrota..

3speedslow

OT on stack height but... Crown races can be split ? I removed a HS from my Tempo cause the race was split and the plastic outer cup had cracked. The HS was a 88-89 Shimano 105.

Sorry for the off had a what tha' moment when I read jimmuller say "crown race is split so don't need tools"

embankmentlb

The bike mechanic at my local shop in the late 1980's tended to use liberal amounts of spacers when he could.
It was not that unusual. Remember those nice Campagnolo spacers that now go for over $50 each on the bay? He would use stacks of those....

jimmuller 

If by matching you mean "none" then yeah, they match. The rich blue paint and mirror-like chrome on each certainly match.

It's a sealed-bearing headset so the crown race is not really a bearing race. It is just a surface on which the lower half of the bearing cartridge sits. So it doesn't matter if it isn't smooth or even contiguous.

Spacers it will be. And we all know that threads are better than threadless when it comes to headsets.

Lascauxcaveman 

Exactly so!

Exactly so!

Road Fan

Jim,

I don't know anything about Grandis, though I have owned and worked on a few other Italian roadies. All of them have come to me with the steer tube cut to fit a 40-ish mm headset, perhaps with a small added spacer allowance to allow a front center pull to be used. I can see how with a threadless fork you could get some added handlebar rise if you leave the steer tube long. And this would also apply if you used a threadless stem on a threaded fork. But with a threaded fork and a quill stem there are some other constraints.

1. You need to have the portion of the quill that will expand, be it conical or wedge, to apply pressure below the threaded area of the fork. This is what limits how high a given stem can be raised. The safety line is an indication of this state. If you don't do this there can be a stress riser in the steer tube material, and the threaded area has sharp edges which impair the strength of the steer tube to such stresses. Fatigue failures of steer tubes are the worry here.

2. Because of this constraint, in the past one would purchase a stem with a longer quill (such as a Nitto Technomic Deluxe or a Nitto Technomic to elevate the extension portion and the bar without quill pressure on the threads of the steer tube. This solution did not require an extended steer tube to "go with" or to provide support to the extended quill. A more recent solution is to use a quill to 1 ⅛" adapter to be able to put a threadless stem on the bike at a suitable height. Obviously this lets you more easily dial in your reach as you change saddle-bar drop.

3. If you can get a stem that positions your bars as you need them without the expanding quill end affecting the threads, there's no reason other than cosmetics to trim the steer tube or leave it long. But if you later want to slam the stem, the elevated edge of the steer tube will limit how far down the stem can be pushed, compared to a steer tube cut for a 40 mm road headset.

If you ride a small frame with a Columbus steer tube, there is often an internal butting to strengthen the steer tube/fork crown interface. This also can limit how far down you can slam a particular stem. On my 51 cm c-c Masi frame it's a problem.

Was this Grandis f/f a NOS frameset? If not, the fork seems not matched to the frame. It could be that the fork was never intended for that frame. If so, trimming the fork might not be a good idea if the steer tube threading does not reach down far enough into your head tube. Theoretically you can have new threads cut, but they need to match seamlessly with the old threads to make sure you can tighten the headset properly. Could take some significant craftsmanship to accomplish that, and they really only get one try to do it right.

79pmooney

The cycling world has enough standards to keep everybody happy! (Except those curmudgeons who grudge abundance.)

In seriousness, I have mixed and matched the good and lowest quality Tange headsets to get the right stack.

Ben

jimmuller 

RF, thanks for the input. I'll check the depth of the stem into the steerer tube carefully. We're talking about a bit less than half an inch though so I don't think it will be a problem one way or another. This is an early 80's bike, definitely not NOS, and definitely used though in excellent condition.

As for standards, we have the same situation in the software bidness. The nice thing about standards is there is always room for another.

jimmuller 

A quick followup:

I queried the seller of this frame about the stack height and received a prompt reply. (I guess it doesn't hurt that I've bought quite a few items from them over the past year or two.)

himespau 

And it's not a replacement fork?

Wildwood 

I bought a NOS f/f and cant get the stem as low as on other bikes. Luckily, not a major issue so I chose not to cut the steerer.

peter_d

Jim, when you first posted your Grandis photos a couple of weeks ago I remember thinking that steerer tube looked on the long side for your frame. It's possible the bike was originally custom ordered from the shop like that but my guess would be a replacement fork. Not that it matters at all, it's still a Grandis fork. If it was mine I would definitely get the steerer cut and rethreaded rather than use a bunch of spacers.

SJX426 

HS can be a challenge. I bought a Masi Gran Corsa f/f (always have to spell it out or people think it is a Gran Criterium) and installed a Campy SR on it but there wasn't enough room for the washer much less a spacer!

jimmuller 

Well, what can I say? As I said above, if it is a replacement fork then it came from Grandis and they matched the paint very very very very very well. The paint is a rich deep metallic blue that probably uses some illegal pigment. In any case, I'll see how it works with some spacers and consider cutting the steerer (or having someone else like Peter Mooney do it) as a fallback. In the meantime, I'm gathering components.