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What could this possibly be?

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What could this possibly be?

Old 11-29-15, 11:13 AM
  #1  
Rhothgar
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What could this possibly be?

Just salvaged an old frame.

It has Vitus 172 Chome forks. The main tubes when tapped do not sound steel but I guess the early Vitus was.

Seems to have a mix of bits on it so some will not be contemporaneous with the bike.

Rear dérailleur is Suntour Cycline MkII with AI code on back. Well what's left of it.

Front dérailleur is a Simplex I'm thinking 70's with my very limited knowledge and research.

Weinmann 405's, Sakae CX chainset.

The chainstay bridge is very close to the BB. Never seen a bike with a chainstay so close. 2 cm. gap! Perhaps this nails it to a certain brand.

You'll see from the photos that the centre of the holes in the lugs is painted the same blue as the older type of outer brake cable.

It's says Black and White Cycle Co on the top tube but this is not a company I have heard of. Maybe supplying dealer? Though very prominent for that perhaps.

There is also a weird plastic wrap around the seat tube half way up.

I have lightly wet and dryed the down tube and underneath the blue it is pink and then white so white base coat then pink (undercoat?). The frame is two tone blue. Light blue wafted into dark blue at the tube ends with a light blue detail in the holes in the lugs.
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Last edited by Rhothgar; 11-29-15 at 11:25 AM. Reason: Added 2 photos and corrected front derailleur spec.
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Old 11-29-15, 11:54 AM
  #2  
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Welcome to the forums.

Looking at the clues in your pictures (outlets, stove top, etc.), you are not located in the US or Canada. So the first step for an ID would be to let us know where the bike is located (your location is secondary ).

Next is to let us know the diameter of the seatpost, the threading on the BB shell and headset. Also more pictures of any markings or the location of the serial number (if any). And finally, more pictures are always better then fewer pictures!
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Old 11-29-15, 12:05 PM
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Good point. Sorry. Will update profile. I posted in introductions.

I am UK based as is bike. :-)

Need to get verniers on and clean up BB shells. Hopefully they'll have threading info on.
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Old 11-29-15, 12:16 PM
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Definitely French because of the forged Simplex rear DO'S and the Vitus fork.
Pink paint on it might suggest it's a Mercier, but I would expect the Mercier crown cast into the fork shoulders if it was.....
Although the scalloped seat stay ends is a good sign, quality-wise, the Vitus 172 fork blades suggests a mid level model at most if the fork is original today the frame. A top level model would have had "Supervitus" fork blades. The very basic Weinmann 405 brakeset suggests the same.....
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Old 11-29-15, 12:43 PM
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Thanks for your thoughts.

Weinmann brakes. That's why I prefer to ignore components or at least be selective.

Just noticed it has a Stronglight Competition headset.
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Old 11-29-15, 06:51 PM
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The plastic wrap looks like the shim stock for a Citadel U-lock bracket.
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Old 11-29-15, 07:00 PM
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Some of you guys missed you calling as police detectives.
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Old 11-29-15, 09:04 PM
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could it be a Jeunet? The seat cluster looks like a Jeunet frame I have.
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Old 12-04-15, 03:41 PM
  #9  
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Guys. Thanks for all the input.

I will post more photos when I get a moment but I think I know what it is...

I've spent hours researching since last logging on and I hope when I upload more photos someone will name what I think it is without much effort.
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Old 12-04-15, 04:15 PM
  #10  
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Here are some more photos of this frame.

I do not believe the crank is original. The bottom bracket is Nervar 121. I believe the BB is original. Would this be for a double chainset or triple?

I believe the front dérailleur is original and is a Simplex SJA102. The rear probably isn't.

The gear levers are Simplex.

I I believe the Weinmann 405 brake are original.

There is a 7 digit number on the bottom bracket. 649XXXX. Not taken photo as yet.

There also appears to be black paint under the pink undercoat. The black paint lies on grey/white undercoat.
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Last edited by Rhothgar; 12-04-15 at 04:21 PM.
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Old 12-04-15, 04:27 PM
  #11  
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Did you throw in a red herring?
Your bottom bracket photos look like they came from two different bikes.

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Old 12-04-15, 04:29 PM
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Sorry. Also can anyone identify the bars in the bike please? I've drawn a blank.
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Old 12-04-15, 04:32 PM
  #13  
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the chainstay stop mounted on the dropout is something not often encountered. this may prove an aid to identification should you get it down to one or more candidates.

pink paint of this shade is consistent with a rust proofing primer often used. when you have removed more of the blue it will become clear if this colour represents an undercoat or a top coat.

the combination of braze-ons and incasso brake counterboring gives you a date it cannot be earlier than.
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Old 12-04-15, 04:49 PM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by juvela View Post
incasso brake counterboring
Could you explain this to me please?

I should also say that it says 0482 on the BB So a 1982 bike I believe.

Definitely a pink undercoat or top of a previous black top coat.

How do I best strip it to conserve the original paint?
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Old 12-04-15, 05:00 PM
  #15  
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1982 is very plausible date.

incasso, or recessed, brake mounting begins ~1981.

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Old 12-04-15, 08:26 PM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
Did you throw in a red herring?
Your bottom bracket photos look like they came from two different bikes.
Not intentionally. Right hand photo is correct. Well spotted.
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Old 12-04-15, 09:55 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by Rhothgar View Post
Sorry. Also can anyone identify the bars in the bike please? I've drawn a blank.
I have a pair of bars with those same engravings, that came off a 1970s era Puch Cavalier I used to have.
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Old 12-05-15, 12:52 AM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by Vintage_Cyclist View Post
I have a pair of bars with those same engravings, that came off a 1970s era Puch Cavalier I used to have.
Cool. Useful to know. However, I do not believe this bike to be Austrian. Shame really because my partner is though frame is too big for her.

Another useful bit of informarion is that the seat post measures 26.35 mm. so I would be guessing that the seat tube ID would be around 26.8 mm?
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Old 12-08-15, 05:14 PM
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26.8mm pillar size would be slightly large for a metric dimension Vitus tubeset.

straight steel pillars such as the one the bicycle wears often get deformed into a state of non-roundness. possible the intended size of the opening is 26.2mm or 26.4mm.

have you been able to learn any additional information about the bicycle?
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Old 12-08-15, 05:42 PM
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From the seat stays and fork crown it looks like a 1977 to 1980 Motobecane made for the European market. Maybe a model C3 or C4?

It also looks like the components are a 'dog's breakfast'...

Check out my posts in this thread:

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...l#post18372377

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...l#post18372854

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...l#post18373736

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...l#post18373761

Motobecane made some mid and upper mid price range bikes during those years with metallic pink and metallic lavender paint.

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Old 12-08-15, 08:50 PM
  #21  
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yet another mystery solved thanks to Chas.!
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Old 12-09-15, 03:45 PM
  #22  
Rhothgar
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Originally Posted by verktyg View Post
From the seat stays and fork crown it looks like a 1977 to 1980 Motobecane made to the European market. Maybe a model C3 or C4?

It also looks like the components are a 'dog's breakfast'...

Check out my posts in this thread:

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...l#post18372377

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...l#post18372854

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...l#post18373736

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...l#post18373761

Motobecane made some mid and upper mid price range bikes during those years with metallic pink and metallic lavender paint.

verktyg

Chas.
Chas. You are a star and have confirmed my later findings. On finding the specs of the Grand Record, I can see that the brakes are correct. Cannot find ANY photos of the handlebars on the net or much info on the maker of them. The front derailleur and shifters match 1982 spec as does headset and bottom bracket.

I believe it to be a 1982 Motobecane Grand Record as the dark paint on the underside of the BB is black. Hard to tell under the blue but a mate of mine said he could see black.

1) So what is it worth?

2 How do I best strip it to conserve as much of the original paint?

Last edited by Rhothgar; 12-09-15 at 04:01 PM.
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Old 12-11-15, 02:20 PM
  #23  
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Here are a couple more photos which shows the various colours.
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