Chain wrap theory
#26
Senior Member

Joined: Apr 2005
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From: Ann Arbor, MI
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
I'm with @jonwvara in that I'd rather be safe then sorry. While I try to never go big-big, sometimes at the end of a long hard ride, when weariness has peaked, making a shifting mistake on the final hill can be either a disaster or an inconsequential mistake. I'd prefer the later over the former.


Lets see:
(50+38)-(31+16)=41 Now that's some chain wrap! 


Lets see:
(50+38)-(31+16)=41 Now that's some chain wrap! 
Yes it is, Bob! I don't think I've ever seen a DuoPar so fully used!
#27
What??? Only 2 wheels?


Joined: Apr 2010
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From: Boston-ish, MA
Bikes: 72 Peugeot UO-8, 82 Peugeot TH8, 87 Bianchi Brava, 76? Masi Grand Criterium, 74 Motobecane Champion Team, 86 & 77 Gazelle champion mondial, 81? Grandis, 82? Tommasini, 83 Peugeot PF10
One other possibility, which isn't catastrophic and may depend on the RD geometry, is that pulley cage winds the tension pulley backwards and upwards so far that more tension in the lower chain section can't pull it downward and forward. (See Pastor Bob's second pic.)
[Aside: I once did half of my morning commute with a seriously sagging chain when the RD's pulley cage broke. If I wasn't careful I could throw or bounce the chain off the rings. But it was doable without catastrophic consequences and I even managed a rear shift or two successfully before I wised up and stopped trying to be stupid.]
Now that you mention it, yeah.
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jimmuller
Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
#28
Hmm @jimmuller, I think we're getting down to semantics. My understanding is that sizing a chain big/big + 2 should be enough chain for most systems. Too short a chain can pose a serious risk.
But say your chain is long enough but you're exceeding the rd capacity by "too much". (5 teeth, 10t, 20t, whatever.) As I see it the main risk here is that the chain will sag and/or rub on the derailleur in small/small -- not a good thing but you and the bike will be fine. But what about "overstretching" the rd in big/big? My thought is that as long as the chain is long enough this shouldn't be catastrophic, though I suppose an rd could break if overstretched too much -- say parallel to the chainstay.
Anyway, for most real world situations (i.e. exceeding rd capacity by -5t) I see no catastrophic risks **as long as the chain isn't too short**.
But say your chain is long enough but you're exceeding the rd capacity by "too much". (5 teeth, 10t, 20t, whatever.) As I see it the main risk here is that the chain will sag and/or rub on the derailleur in small/small -- not a good thing but you and the bike will be fine. But what about "overstretching" the rd in big/big? My thought is that as long as the chain is long enough this shouldn't be catastrophic, though I suppose an rd could break if overstretched too much -- say parallel to the chainstay.
Anyway, for most real world situations (i.e. exceeding rd capacity by -5t) I see no catastrophic risks **as long as the chain isn't too short**.
Last edited by jethin; 01-24-16 at 11:24 AM.
#29
Phyllo-buster


Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,270
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From: Nova Scotia
Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic
Option 1 is not boring, it's almost mandatory when building up a bike for someone else. If you're riding it, at least you will be aware of the details of the final build and whatever limitations it will have.
Option 2 It won't be creative, it will be risky. Sure it may work on the stand in the shop but the real world has other plans.
#30
Senior Member


Joined: Oct 2007
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From: Oakland, CA
Bikes: centurion cinelli equipe, look hinault 753, Zunow z-1, 83 stumpy sport
I agree that 1 is not boring. I went with a MTB long cage derailleur and I could not be happier with my ridiculous range of gearing.
#31
Have bike, will travel
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Lake Geneva, WI
Bikes: Ridley Helium SLX, Canyon Endurance SL, De Rosa Professional, Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra, Schwinn Paramount (1 painted, 1 chrome), Peugeot PX10, Serotta Nova X, Simoncini Cyclocross Special, Raleigh Roker, Pedal Force CG2 and CX2
Option #3
Put a 46t chainring on the outer position of the crankset. That will drop the the chain wrap value to 29 units. Any Shimano rear derailleur can handle that. She will have plenty of range and will never have to worry about cross chain issues. A 46t chainring linked to an 11t cassette cog provides 30 mph at a 90 rpm cadence.
Put a 46t chainring on the outer position of the crankset. That will drop the the chain wrap value to 29 units. Any Shimano rear derailleur can handle that. She will have plenty of range and will never have to worry about cross chain issues. A 46t chainring linked to an 11t cassette cog provides 30 mph at a 90 rpm cadence.
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When I ride my bike I feel free and happy and strong. I'm liberated from the usual nonsense of day to day life. Solid, dependable, silent, my bike is my horse, my fighter jet, my island, my friend. Together we will conquer that hill and thereafter the world.
When I ride my bike I feel free and happy and strong. I'm liberated from the usual nonsense of day to day life. Solid, dependable, silent, my bike is my horse, my fighter jet, my island, my friend. Together we will conquer that hill and thereafter the world.
Last edited by Barrettscv; 01-24-16 at 06:53 PM.
#32
Banned.
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From: on the beach
Bikes: '73 falcon sr, '76 grand record, '84 davidson
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