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Chain wrap theory

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Old 01-24-16 | 07:27 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh
I'm with @jonwvara in that I'd rather be safe then sorry. While I try to never go big-big, sometimes at the end of a long hard ride, when weariness has peaked, making a shifting mistake on the final hill can be either a disaster or an inconsequential mistake. I'd prefer the later over the former.





Lets see: (50+38)-(31+16)=41 Now that's some chain wrap!

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Old 01-24-16 | 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by jethin
How about this one: I have a chain sized to big/big + 2 links but am exceeding the rd capacity by 2-3 teeth. What's the risk here? I assume it's just possible sag in small/small combos but no catastrophic possibilities in big/big, right?
There is risk and there is serious risk. The only serious risk I see is whether +2 is enough to let the chain ride over the teeth to shift. Which is another way of sayin' "Just what do you mean by 'sized to big/big'?" (Ya' gotta' love punctuation!)

One other possibility, which isn't catastrophic and may depend on the RD geometry, is that pulley cage winds the tension pulley backwards and upwards so far that more tension in the lower chain section can't pull it downward and forward. (See Pastor Bob's second pic.)

[Aside: I once did half of my morning commute with a seriously sagging chain when the RD's pulley cage broke. If I wasn't careful I could throw or bounce the chain off the rings. But it was doable without catastrophic consequences and I even managed a rear shift or two successfully before I wised up and stopped trying to be stupid.]

Originally Posted by jethin
EDIT 3: Is it obvious I'm trapped in a snow storm?
Now that you mention it, yeah.
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Old 01-24-16 | 10:42 AM
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Hmm @jimmuller, I think we're getting down to semantics. My understanding is that sizing a chain big/big + 2 should be enough chain for most systems. Too short a chain can pose a serious risk.


But say your chain is long enough but you're exceeding the rd capacity by "too much". (5 teeth, 10t, 20t, whatever.) As I see it the main risk here is that the chain will sag and/or rub on the derailleur in small/small -- not a good thing but you and the bike will be fine. But what about "overstretching" the rd in big/big? My thought is that as long as the chain is long enough this shouldn't be catastrophic, though I suppose an rd could break if overstretched too much -- say parallel to the chainstay.


Anyway, for most real world situations (i.e. exceeding rd capacity by -5t) I see no catastrophic risks **as long as the chain isn't too short**.

Last edited by jethin; 01-24-16 at 11:24 AM.
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Old 01-24-16 | 11:03 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by icepick_trotsky

Option 1: Replace the RD with a longer cage model. Boring.

Option 2: Get creative with chain length.
This is not intended to be harsh, just helpful.

Option 1 is not boring, it's almost mandatory when building up a bike for someone else. If you're riding it, at least you will be aware of the details of the final build and whatever limitations it will have.

Option 2 It won't be creative, it will be risky. Sure it may work on the stand in the shop but the real world has other plans.
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Old 01-24-16 | 12:05 PM
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I agree that 1 is not boring. I went with a MTB long cage derailleur and I could not be happier with my ridiculous range of gearing.
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Old 01-24-16 | 12:16 PM
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Option #3

Put a 46t chainring on the outer position of the crankset. That will drop the the chain wrap value to 29 units. Any Shimano rear derailleur can handle that. She will have plenty of range and will never have to worry about cross chain issues. A 46t chainring linked to an 11t cassette cog provides 30 mph at a 90 rpm cadence.
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Old 01-24-16 | 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by clubman
Option 1 is not boring, it's almost mandatory when building up a bike for someone else. If you're riding it, at least you will be aware of the details of the final build and whatever limitations it will have.
well put.
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