obrentharris 

@iab had a beautiful Viscontea Pista for sale. For sale - 1949 Viscontea pista

Maybe the new owner will let you borrow it! May I attach my bungee cord to your seatpost?
Brent

jonwvara 

I think that might be okay. You will be suffering less, but it will allow me to suffer more. As long as the aggregate amount of suffering remains the same I don't think we'll be doing any real harm.

non-fixie 

I've read somewhere that Fausto Coppi - whom we're all trying to emulate of course - typically rode with 49 x 21 as his lowest gear, so for a rider of your aptitude that would be a nice setup. I mean, it's not like you're going into the Alps or the Dolomites, in which case 47 x 23 would be preferable.

velomateo

I did the coastal route last year and rode all the climbs, except the last few yards of the first climb, in a 42-28. I would recommend spending as much time as you can dialing in your shoe and pedal fit. I felt that was more an issue than my gearing last year. I did a few test rides prior to the event, but nothing as steep as that first climb. Gearing is definitely important, but being able to get the most out of what you have is also something to consider.

Looking forward to another great event this year.

dansafe

Thank you both (CD Murphy & Dr. Cannondale) for your thoughtful replies, regarding my old Raleigh Pro and gearing issues.
Still very hard for me to believe that I used to climb serious mountains back in the day (1970s) on the same bike, same gear. Amazing what happens when you tie up the horse and de-saddle for a few decades.
As an old school aficionado, moving to the Japanese components would be selling out (for me), guess I will continue to ride and condition myself, and pray that someday I will be able to surmount the challenges ahead. ;=))
Be safe out there, Dansafe

Classtime 

Dansafe, you are gonna have a blast. Post a pic of your bike when you are able.

dansafe

Howdy evets11, and your posting response on the "Downgear for vintage Campy racing gearing"

Thank you very much for taking time to run this all down, sounds very complicated for a non-mechanic type like me,
I think I will keep my old Raleigh Pro 1972 (a museum piece) in original condition, and perhaps one of these days, get one of the newer, lower geared bikes out there. Be safe!

mech986 

Luciano apparently died of a heart attack or similar sudden death event while riding his bike. He was found on the side of the road, down, but with no evidence of any other injury, car accident or trauma indicating any other physical contact, all this according to various accounts from the townspeople who found him. A sad loss indeed.

jonwvara 

Your directions are very good except for the ISO/JIS spindle question. Until 1994, Campagnolo used a proprietary non-ISO spindle taper that was so close to the modern JIS taper as to be interchangeable. After that, they began using the same ISO taper as everyone else. The Phil Wood site has a brief but useful writeup on this:

Phil Wood & Co.

So if you're fitting a spindle to a pre-1994 crank (I don't think they made any 144 BCD cranks later than the 1980s, although I'm not sure), a JIS spindle is actually the one you want.

jonwvara 

Thanks, I think, but not such a master--3/4 of what I know about old bikes I learned here, and only because there are so many generous people on this forum who know so much more than I do.

Choke 

It's not the only option, at least in regards to the crank. Victory and Triomphe cranks have a 116 bolt circle which means they can fit a chainring as small as 35T. Those small chainrings are hard to find though and often command a decent price when you do find one.

I've also used a 30T freewheel on SR/NR rear derailleurs with no mods. I know the ad copy for the Rally RD cages say a 32T max but that seems small to me....the original Rally RD had a 36T max.

ThermionicScott 

Is your humor detector broken?

jonwvara 

I'm absolutely serious. You should see my legs. I'm not even going to mention my resting heart rate, because it's so low you wouldn't believe it.

jonwvara 

Darn it! It would have been fun to keep that going for a while longer. I'm a congenital chain-yanker--no harm intended.

ThermionicScott 

Sorry for spoiling it. Perhaps I jumped the gun as well.

72fuji

Is it like Chuck Norris low??? You can’t be Chuck Norris low no one can be chuck Norris low...
His warm up.... 52/12 fixie, steady 100rpm 30 minutes then his heart asks if it can go up.... (all I got for that one)

Ghrumpy

Well, not exactly. Campagnolo's pre-1994 taper is not that close to JIS. It may be close enough to "work" but it's not exactly what I'd consider "interchangeable."

The Campy taper is symmetrical, like JIS, whereas ISO isn't. But really it's somewhere between the ISO and the JIS. It's slightly bigger on the end than ISO but smaller than JIS. But it's a shorter taper than either.

As I've written elsewhere, it's a mistake to think of any pre-standard European taper as adhering to any standard; every company had their own. ISO is a compromise taper designed to work with as many "legacy" European cranksets as possible, from TA to Zeus, but is not exactly the same as any of them. (This is why the ISO has a longer DS taper, to accommodate TA and Stronglight.)
OTOH you can say the JIS taper is exactly the same as the Sugino "Maxy" taper, because it was the de facto Japanese BB taper when the JIS was adopted. (It's pretty much an exact copy of the right side Stronglight taper, FWIW, and nobody would say the Stronglight taper is the same as Campagnolo, would they? I wouldn't.)

Then again, these standards are not compulsory. Even in Japan, Suntour made their "Superbe" taper after JIS was adopted, and Sugino still make non-JIS cranks that fit only their "Mighty" taper BB, which is a very close copy to the Campagnolo. It's not close to JIS.

The unfortunate truth is that if you're trying to use a pre-standard crankset with a post-standard BB (or vice versa) you just have to try them out to make sure they will fit. You can't always depend on what a particular web site says. Older cranksets might have been overtightened and the taper hole expanded, so what might work on paper may not work in real life.

jonwvara 

Yes, well said, thanks.

Unless you're using the original spindle, there's always some trial and error--or at least guesswork--involved in getting the chainline just right. In my experience, there's usually no point in obsessing about specifications, because (as you noted) every crankset is different, depending on how many times it has been removed and reinstalled, how tightly the bolts were cranked down, etc.

But I've found that old Campagnolo is generally compatible with JIS. For a lot of people it's easier to throw on a modern Japanese cartridge BB than to get down in the weeds of Campagnolo spindles and the thick-cup vs. thin-cup issue. As I have always said, I'm an empiricist at heart. I've coached a lot of people through triple conversions, and no one has ever told me that they couldn't get a JIS spindle to work with an old Campy crank.

Although having said that, I suppose I can expect to hear from someone who couldn't sometime soon.

mech986 

The Triplizer chainrings, a suitable 74BCD inner chainring, and a longer bottom bracket spindle plus adjustments to your RD/FD are pretty much all you would need. The Redclovercomponents.com website has the triplizers which are copies of TA units of old. They are probably the least expensive way to get a triple setup with gearing below 36 easily. The early Campagnolo Nuovo Record or Record spindles were 118-119mm wide, so for your Raleigh you would need to switch over (I think) to the thin BB cups, not the rifled thick cups. I suspect the BB spindle would be numbered 68-SS-120 X3 (Italian version is 70-SS-120 X3). The later 68-SS X3 or 70-SS X3 are 124-125mm wide, use the thicker cups, and put the chainline out a bit further for 6-7 speed freewheels.

Dry test fitting is important to be sure you can clear the chainstay with the inner ring.

Chainwrap will be important considerations, also the type of chain used, many use KMC (Z30/31 or Z50/51) or SedisSport (SRAM) types used for 6 speed as they are a little less flexible and shift better in this application. The use of a Master Link makes it easy to take off and service.

Bob Freeman from the CR group can also precision drill standard Campagnolo NR/SR drive side cranks to use a 74 bcd chainring. It requires specific types of standoff spacers and 10mm regular NR chainring bolts. As most 74bcd chainrings come from MTN bike applications, they need to be drilled out from 8mm to 10mm. Be sure to get rings with already chamfered holes on one side to seat the chainring bolts properly.

mech986 

Also, anyone who has posted in this thread, if you haven't already, please let me know if you are attending Eroica California 2018 this year. We have an Eroica BF page already in full swing and we'd like to help people meet up, get to know each other, and maybe even ride together for awhile on the various routes.

See this thread, and post first name, your location, your route, and your bike. Hope it will be a lot of fun.

Eroica California 2018 - BF C&V page - plus donations question

jonwvara 

Good summation. The very simplest approach to installing a bottom bracket (and the cheapest, unless you already have the right Campagnolo cups and spindle on hand) is to install a 115mm Shimano cartridge bb--something like a UN54 or UN55. In my experience that works well with any 144 BCD Campy triple, whether it uses a triplizer ring or has drilled arms. That will get the OP riding with minimal delay, and it it seems important it's always possible to find the correct Campy cup-and-cone bb later.

Spaghetti Legs 

I am taking the absolute simplest approach and walking when I run out gears. If I’m feeling particularly “heroic” I might shoulder the bike ‘cross style and jog.

jonwvara 

I've heard that called the twenty-four inch gear, because twenty-four inches is two feet.

jonwvara 

Triples rule!

Have a great time! Every year I hope I'll be able to come, and every year it doesn't happen for some reason or other. But I'm looking forward to hearing some ride reports.

Kabuki12

Is there much benefit to 175 cranks vs 170? I have a set I could put on the Mondia if there would be much difference. I will be running a 42-26 low gear(maybe 28 if I can get my NR derailleur to work it) Joe