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Internal/External geared hub

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Internal/External geared hub

Old 04-01-16, 09:22 AM
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Internal/External geared hub

I've seen a couple threads here recently with older three speed type Sturmey Archer hubs.

When I was younger, I recall someone who had an internally geared hub combined with a freewheel and derailleur.

Anybody know who made the hub, or how this was done? I'm curious.

Thanks.
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Old 04-01-16, 09:31 AM
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It's pretty easy to do on your standard Sturmey Archer AW hub. The cogs are 1/8" thick, and the driver is designed to hold one cog and two 1/16" spacers; so you can put two cogs on the driver, dished away from each other. Typically people do this with tooth counts differing by 3, so an 18t and a 21t, 19t and 22t, 20t and 23t, etc. This gives convenient half steps. I have this setup on my 1940-ish Fothergill bike (photo below).

Cyclo used to make a couple cog clusters of three cogs that fit on the same driver. You can get a pretty wide range that way, but several of the 9 speeds are redundant.

Shimano also used to make a two speed hub that took a standard freewheel; you see them on eBay periodically.



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Old 04-01-16, 09:37 AM
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The early AW hubs had threaded drivers that would accept a freewheel. IRC the Hercules hubs did as well. You can buy new SA hubs with cassettes.
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Old 04-01-16, 09:40 AM
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in the 50s I bought a single piece of steel; machined to replace the stock Sturmey Archer cog , it was machined with 3 cog sizes in it.

snap ring as before held it on the hub Sturmey Archer still was the hub , but another British company 'Cyclo' Made the 1 pc cog cluster.

I fitted a derailleur to make the 3 cog cear change, with 1 lever & another lever for the 3 internal gears..

Now there are both S-A and Sram (who bought Sachs that made them ) have regular derailleur cassettes

on the driver assembly of 3 speed Hubs.. And..

Sturmey Archer-Sun Race makes a 3 speed hub with a 2 cog set on the driver, for Brompton .. now..

in the recent past, before the Sram buyout, Brompton got their 3 by 2 speed rear hub from Sachs, Germany.


And right Now, you can buy a S-A S3X hub & thread on a freewheel or a White industries 2 cog freewheel..

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Old 04-01-16, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
Cyclo used to make a couple cog clusters of three cogs that fit on the same driver.


The AW/Cyclo 3 cog hybrid set-up circa 1956 is what I've been running on my town bikes for decades, bought it NOS in ~1970.
With a range of 41-106 GI, nice steps and the ability to shift while coasting it has meet my requirements nicely.

It is overly complicated, combines the advantages/disadvantages of both the IGH and the derailleur, fussy, heavy, and requires advanced math to determine which lever to move in which direction to select the "next" gear. Typically British.

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Old 04-01-16, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost View Post
The early AW hubs had threaded drivers that would accept a freewheel. IRC the Hercules hubs did as well.
Yeah, but you had to disassemble the hub and clamp the driver in a vise to remove the freewheel.

The Cyclo conversion mentioned above used a splined cluster:

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Old 04-01-16, 11:10 AM
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My Bike Friday has a SACHS (SRAM now) 3X7 system

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Old 04-01-16, 11:56 AM
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Hmm, I think I have a threaded SA driver or two in the bin. Might have to experiment.
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Old 04-01-16, 12:34 PM
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I ran an AW hub with a 5 speed freewheel on it a while back. It was very cool to have done it, but after a short while, I abandoned it. It was truly the worst of both worlds. The simplicity of a 3 speed was ruined by adding a 5 speed cluster and derailleurs. The simplicity of a derailleur bike was ruined by adding a hub that weighs 117 pounds and has its well known quirks. The gear range had a tremendous amount of overlaps. My advice would be to either ride a derailleur bike or an internal hub. Don't combine the two.
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Old 04-01-16, 03:02 PM
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Thanks all. Good to know I haven't lost my mind after all these years. It was a 3 speed freewheel that was used on that bike, I do remember that.

I understand the "Typical British" comment. I cut my teeth on British cars back in the day. Quirky, but sure were nice looking rides. It's a debatable topic, but I don't think I've ever seen a better looking set of lines on a car than the early 100 Healeys.

Last edited by satbuilder; 04-01-16 at 03:04 PM. Reason: .
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