Help identifying older Peugeot.
 

Hello people!

EDIT: 2016-04-27 NEW PICTURES ON SECOND PAGE!

Pictures of the bike to identify can be seen at the bottom.

So I found this Peugeot the other day for sale and the amount of vintage racers in my area is extremely low so when I saw this I figured well why not look into and see if it's worth buying. After searching the web for hours I haven't found much and the pictures that the owner who dosn't seem to be the original owner or have any information about the model or year of the bike except that it's Peugeot are not much to go on except for the paintjob and lugs among some other details that dosn't require a close look.

What I've come up with so far:
I'm 85% sure it's a Peugeut PA60 from 1976:

http://www.peugeotshow.com/1976nl/1976nl_03.jpg
However there are two things that makes me question the model, first thing is the paintjob around the rear drop-outs, on all pictures I find it's chromed on the PA60 but on the bike I'm trying to identify it's white along with the rest of the frame. The second thing is the fork's sticker with the French flag which can be seen on the PY10 from 1976 here:

http://www.peugeotshow.com/1976nl/1976nl_14.jpg
and the saddle seems to be a Selle Italia sprint leather saddle. The rear derailleur seems to be a Simplex Criterium AR637NI(source):VeloBase.com - Component: Simplex Criterium people suggest it was available between 1969-1973~ can't confirm this myself hope someone on these forums know their history.

I think that covers what I've been able to see on the pictures myself and after searching around for clues. Also I think Simplex is stamped into the frame at the rear drop-outs, you can see it vaguely in the picture focused at the rear derailleur.

And last but not least pictures of the bike:
http://i.imgur.com/cE9MVip.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/52ZCMZe.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LiZ211W.jpg

Thanks in advance and I hope we can solve this, or confirm the PA60 model.

Well, are you a gentleman, or a racer? 😉

1976ish UO-8.

Touché! the short answer would be I'm a racer, trying to find a solid bike for a reasonable price which proves to be harder than I first imagined. Any thoughts about the model/theory of PA60 along with the weird things standing out abit?

At first glance it's a valid guess but looking at the details there's alot that differs them apart, the lugs are different, the stickers dosn't match and there is also mounts for a bicycle pump on the frame along with different mounting for the rear brake cable.

With a hanger? Never seen that before.

1976ish UO-8. Your bike has the following differences:

frame tubing - denoted by decal above shifters and lack of chromed rear triangle stays
brake levers - safety levers, aka turkey wings
rims - chrime vs alloy
cranks - cotter pin vs. cotterless
saddle - ideale vs. unknown

look at catalogs at bikeboompeugeot.com

Thanks for correction, try UO-9.

Haven't had my morning coffee yet.

Looked at both those models thoroughly and there are numerous of things that suggests otherwise, have you seen any specific picture where you saw details that proved otherwised?

This bike is in beautiful shape and it's old. I'd buy it at the right price.

To the OP: you're in the Netherlands or Belgium, right? The European models were not quite the same as the American ones.

This is not a UO-8, 9, or 10. Those bikes had claw derailleurs and did not have nice forged drop outs.

Peugeot made a lower end racing bike with hi-tensile steel and and a hanger but I'm not sure if I've seen one with a nice forged drop out like this. The Pugs I've seen with forged drop outs typically had a little nicer frame tubing (at least in the main triangle) but your bike doesn't look like it has a tubing sticker.

The parts are pretty meaningless in terms of dating the bike. My guess is that this is an earlier version of the 1976 PA 60. The bike in the catalog has a cotterless crank. Your bike has a cottered crank which suggests it is older.

While I disagree with [MENTION=305894]oddjob2[/MENTION] about this being a UO-X, he does point out the rear triangle is not chrome so the PA guess may also be off. Also, could be that the original cranks were removed by a PO. Still a beat bike and imagine the hours of fun still to come investigating and then returning the bike to whatever spec you decide on! 😀

Yea it's definitely a nice bike hence why it caught my eye and I've working my ass off trying to find a reason to buy it. Had my hopes up it was a "better" model at first but research pointed me in another direction sort of. Partly right, I'm located in Sweden so could explain the difference in model, regarding the tubing there is no sign of a tubing sticker the only sticker present is the cadre allege. So the odds of dating and identifying the bike to a certain model could prove difficult then I suppose.

Realisticly, what would a good/acceptable price for this bike?

European prices are different than in the US. Even in the US there is a wide variation in prices between larger cities and college towns and smaller cities and more rural ones. I'd buy that bike for a $100 with no questions asked. If I wanted to ride it, I'd be willing to go as high as $150-$200. It's tough to defend too high a valuation given that this is likely a low end Pug and so it is competing with some pretty nice bikes once you get north of $200.

I might be willing to pay more than that as well if the bike is from the 60s and I wanted an old bike. Condition matters and this bike gets a solid bump up for age and condition in terms of value. In my experience, nice old bikes in great shape don't show up every day and it's worth paying a bit "extra" for one. I didn't blink an eye at doing that when I picked up this bike,

http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/1053299-1960ish-olmo-gran-sport.html


Are the wheels mismatched? The tires clearly are but hopefully the wheels are not. I think the key to dating the bike might be the crank. All parts can be changed obviously but this is a nice old cottered crank. I'd try to date the crankset to get an idea of the date on the bike. Cottered cranks were pretty common on racing bikes up until the 60s.

Yea the time spent to search and learn more and more about the bike and it's part itself is a huge part of the joy, I believe my biggest problem right now would be to figure out it's value and possible convince the owner to let it go for that price because I'm pretty sure 370 usd is way over the line for this one.

That's quite the bike you found yourself, looks really good. About the pricing I sometimes feel that sweden is on the edge of losing it's mind regarding these bikes since alot of younger people convert them to fixies, the average price is literally 250usd all the way up to 600+ without any real reason behind it, they have just seen others sell similair bikes and use that as reason for their pricing.

Given that it's a hi tensile steel Pug, I'd think about offering at the lower end of the valuation you just gave (which is around what I paid for my Olmo by the way) and be willing to go higher if I really wanted it and if it dates from the 60s.

The fixie craze is not as strong in the US as it was but it helped push up bike prices here as well.

Like I said earlier, I think the crank is the key to dating the bike. Cranks don't get switched out very often.

Calling on [MENTION=333224]juvela[/MENTION] and [MENTION=101154]big chainring[/MENTION]. Those two can help you date the bike and/or the parts.

I'm gonna push him abit, I've got the situation on my side hopefully, it's been listed for a month so far without being sold so maybe he would consider dropping price to get it sold.
I'm sure you're right about the crank, I'm fairly fresh with older bikes so I got alot to learn!

halleno-

It's an early 70s PA 10 with the feature cut lugs not Aztec style, Peugeot hi-tensile tubing and the Simplex Criterium derailleur gruppo. Originally came with tubulars on QR hubs although the rear might be a replacement clincher. It seems in very nice original condition except the changed out brake levers and wheel. The steel crank is the original Stronglight, later models having an alloy 3 pin Stronglight TS instead. You could push the seller on price for the brake/wheel substitutions. Good luck with it - it is a nice entry level club bike and worth having.

Interesting will look into the model, thanks for the information and I believe so too, hopefully the owner is reasonable :)

[MENTION=302603]bikemig[/MENTION] [MENTION=297217]bertinjim[/MENTION] tagged you incase you were curious about the price, just settled the deal with the seller after negotiation, I managed to push the price down to 150 usd plus he's driving in to town tomorrow bringing the bike along for free, pretty psyched. And regarding the PA10 suggestion it seems to check out, alot of these bikes share the same lugs and paintjob along with details.

150 US is a good price for one of the basic hi-tensile steel Pugs esp. one in this good a condition. They're very fine machines.

This is a good price. It's not a UO, note the forged DO, anything with a forged dropout is "P" typically, none of the "U" bikes had them in this era. Stickers look too pristine, and paint too glossy for anything 1970s France (period, end of discussion), so I suspect this is repaint+resticker, ask the owner about that. If that's true, no telling what they're covering up.

Forged DO though... P/PA/PL/PN/PR-10 - something early-mid 70s.

Note: This isn't a PA-60; there's no tab for a generator/dynamo. If this were a touring bike (50/60), it would have at miminim a tab or a slot braised to the rear DS seat stay, unless someone filed it off before repainting, this ain't a touring bike. (edit: not 100% true)


Related thread for you:
http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...t-experts.html

Acually, nix that last bit: The PA-60 used a clamp-on generator and light. I don't think it had the tab. I agree the stickers appear to be a mix of what PA-60 normally has, but ...

halleno-

Sounds like a good deal! Should be easy to switch back to the Mafac levers should you wish to but the PA 10 has the geometry of the PRs and PXs without the expensive kit.

bertinjim,

Agree on PA10 designation but the early 1970's examples I recall had black headlugs. Also, early 1970's examples came through with a hex head steam expander rather than an allen. Think this machine slightly later but obviously pre-TS. The data would seem to compress the date in both directions toward one of ~1974. Not a rampant lion expert so will leave specific year to others. ;)

Was trying to recall the launch year for the TS and all I could get from my "memory" was a 1974-76 bracket so I went to VB to check. Alas, their listing only gives a date of "mid-'70's." :rolleyes: Do recall it launched ~two years prior to the big Verot revision of their chainset range for 1977-78. This latter date was the launch for models such as 104/105/105Bis, the revision of the 99 and the discontuance of the 93.

bertinjim, do you recall if Peugeot put the TS on the PA10 right at its launch or was it added subsequently?

In my area the PA10 is something of a rare bird. Our local Peugeot distributor carried five drop bar road models during the boom years and the PA10 was by far the slowest seller of the five.