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Can anyone identify this?

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Old 05-23-16 | 05:42 AM
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Can anyone identify this?

I bought this bike at a garage sale that is very light and has all high end (but older) parts on it. However, there is nothing on the frame that gives me a clue to who made it except for this decal on the forks. Can anyone tell me what I bought? Thanks.
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Old 05-23-16 | 05:50 AM
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That's a late 60s/early 70s bike with a 531 frame. I don't know who the maker is.
Pictures you need to post:
1. Full headtube from the side and front (not just the fork crown)
2. The seat cluster from the side
3. The rear drive side drop out viewed from the drive side
4. Any joins in the brazing on the frame or braze-ons that are non-standard.

You also need to tell us the seatpost size, and if you know it, the bottom bracket threading (or alternatively any numbers on the bottom bracket).

What you are showing is most likely not sufficient.
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Old 05-23-16 | 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by TimmyT
That's a late 60s/early 70s bike with a 531 frame.
I'm curious. How can you tell the era, and the steel type, from that pic?
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Old 05-23-16 | 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by cb400bill
I'm curious. How can you tell the era, and the steel type, from that pic?
It has Campy NR shifters and nutted centerpulls and long point lugs that are cleanly outlined, so it's mid-upper tier. That would most likely make it 531. The fork crown is something like a Wagner, which was used extensively in the late 60s/early 70s. Yes, it could be something else, but that's why I'd like more photos.
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Old 05-23-16 | 07:46 AM
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Thanks for the info. I will get some more pics tonight.
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Old 05-24-16 | 05:29 AM
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I found "BREV. CAMPAGNOLO" stamped on the non drive drop out with the numbe127401 below it. It was covered by the quick release. There are no braze ons or markings on the bottom bracket. Again, thanks for any information.
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Old 05-24-16 | 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Jack Bass
I found "BREV. CAMPAGNOLO" stamped on the non drive drop out with the numbe127401 below it. It was covered by the quick release. There are no braze ons or markings on the bottom bracket. Again, thanks for any information.
Looks more like 1274010 to me. This is a 7 digit number so it could be a Raleigh from 1970: Raleigh Serial Numbers & Charts
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Old 05-24-16 | 06:18 AM
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Those are Campagnolo 1010 dropouts. That might be the serial number below it. Are there any other stamps on the frame, such as on the seat tube near the bottom bracket or on the bottom of the bottom bracket?

It looks British to me, but I can't be certain.

The Universal centerpulls and levers might winnow down a window, too.

Can you pull the seatpost out to look for the size? I would guess 27.2. If it were something else, that would be a clue. I would also guess that the steerer tube has a 531 stamped on that. You'd need to pull the fork.
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Old 05-24-16 | 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by realsteel
Looks more like 1274010 to me. This is a 7 digit number so it could be a Raleigh from 1970: Raleigh Serial Numbers & Charts
A Raleigh of comparable quality from this era would have been built in Worksop, and have had a serial number that started with a letter. E would designate 1970, and the serial number would have been stamped on the bottom bracket - with the exception being on the Grand Sport and Super Course, but the lugs and dropouts eliminate those as possibilities. The lugs and seat cluster do look very similar to those on my 1970 Professional, but there are differences also - in the fork crown and also the OP's bicycle appears to be lacking the arc'd rear brake stop which all the mid-upper tier Raleighs of the era had.
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Old 05-24-16 | 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by USAZorro
A Raleigh of comparable quality from this era would have been built in Worksop, and have had a serial number that started with a letter. E would designate 1970, and the serial number would have been stamped on the bottom bracket - with the exception being on the Grand Sport and Super Course, but the lugs and dropouts eliminate those as possibilities. The lugs and seat cluster do look very similar to those on my 1970 Professional, but there are differences also - in the fork crown and also the OP's bicycle appears to be lacking the arc'd rear brake stop which all the mid-upper tier Raleighs of the era had.
Yeah, it's not a Raleigh. The seat cluster is wrong. It might be a Holdsworth or ...
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Old 05-24-16 | 10:05 AM
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A Mercian perhaps?
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Old 05-24-16 | 01:54 PM
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She is wearing a Verot V4 headset. Not found on many British products. Appears late '60's.
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Old 05-24-16 | 02:04 PM
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Looks like wrap around seat stay and Raleigh did have those. Not saying that is what it is at this point though. Also looks like Universal 61's. New ones came out in 68' so if those are original it would most likely fall between for a year.

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Old 05-24-16 | 02:08 PM
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Good point ^ and yes that's a Vagner (Wagner) fork crown but best clues will be the ODs of the main tubes as well as seatpost size, BB threading...I don't recognize that vaguely "Heraldic" decal from anything seen before tho slightly like a Mercier, but could be a red herring...components include some Italian brakes and stem, French HS and cranks...very Continental!
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Old 05-24-16 | 07:41 PM
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I checked the seatpost and did not see a size. The clamp did say made in England. The seat tube has a 1 1/16 inch ID and a 1 7/32 OD if that helps. There are no other stamps on the frame that I found.
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Old 05-24-16 | 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Jack Bass
I checked the seatpost and did not see a size. The clamp did say made in England. The seat tube has a 1 1/16 inch ID and a 1 7/32 OD if that helps. There are no other stamps on the frame that I found.
That is about 27mm so is good quality.

Really need more close ups if you want to see if it can be figured out. Seat cluster, brake bridge, bottom bracket (from non drive side so is easier to see).
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Old 05-24-16 | 08:27 PM
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I know I suck at this, but there's a lot here that's screaming Motobecane to me, although I see at least one thing off. It's definitely a repaint and the fork decal is something aftermarket/custom.

Either way, cool score. What'd you pay for it, and where are you located, geographically?
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Old 05-24-16 | 08:47 PM
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Can't help ID, but it's a really good-looking bike. Dunno if I buy the "definitely a repaint/decal is aftermarket" comment above, but you know what? Taking another look at that decal, it really makes me think Poland, of all things.
Not suggesting it's a Polish-built bike or anything; that seems rather unlikely.

Oh, and if you decide that saddle isn't your thing, look me up!
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Old 05-24-16 | 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by francophile
I know I suck at this, but there's a lot here that's screaming Motobecane to me, although I see at least one thing off. It's definitely a repaint and the fork decal is something aftermarket/custom.

Either way, cool score. What'd you pay for it, and where are you located, geographically?
She does appear to be wearing MB handlebar plugs.
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Old 05-24-16 | 10:23 PM
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Can you see if there are any markings on the driveside bottom bracket cup?
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Old 05-25-16 | 07:30 PM
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Paid $60 for her. Could not get the money our fast enough. A SW Michigan find. The old guy said his son set up bikes for someone in Australia.
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Old 05-25-16 | 07:31 PM
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She did have one MB handlebar plug. Have since rewrapped though. I did save the plug, just because....
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Old 05-25-16 | 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by juvela
She does appear to be wearing MB handlebar plugs.
Totally serious, though. It's clearly a 70s bike, the lugs match the early 70s Team Champion (pre-74, IIRC). If the stays nearly wrap or ride high, geometry looks about right, crown fork is correct (Milremo or Vagner, I get the two confuse), and clearcoat didn't exist in the 70s, there's no way it'd be that glossy and thick unless it was never ridden, plus the non-descript decals, all which which suggests a repaint.

If the person who owned it was putting bikes together for someone, they surely had the resources. This is one of those cases where I wish [MENTION=61614]verktyg[/MENTION] would show up and drop his 2¢. Bike screams high-end French to me. Maybe I'm crazy though I suck with IDs.
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Old 05-25-16 | 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Jack Bass
Paid $60 for her. Could not get the money our fast enough. A SW Michigan find. The old guy said his son set up bikes for someone in Australia.
Steal of the century! Could easily score that on the crankset alone. I'll give you $180 if you let me permanently keep it in my shop
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Old 05-25-16 | 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by francophile
Totally serious, though. It's clearly a 70s bike, the lugs match the early 70s Team Champion (pre-74, IIRC). If the stays nearly wrap or ride high, geometry looks about right, crown fork is correct (Milremo or Vagner, I get the two confuse), and clearcoat didn't exist in the 70s, there's no way it'd be that glossy and thick unless it was never ridden, plus the non-descript decals, all which which suggests a repaint.

If the person who owned it was putting bikes together for someone, they surely had the resources. This is one of those cases where I wish @verktyg would show up and drop his 2¢. Bike screams high-end French to me. Maybe I'm crazy though I suck with IDs.
We need more & better detail imagery from OP...and we need tube/thread DIMENSIONS.
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