Help w/I.D. of Vintage Sanwa
08-01-16, 12:33 PM
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Old Boy
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Help w/I.D. of Vintage Sanwa
Hello all. A coworker brought in a bicycle that has been hanging in her garage for decades. Man's frame, about 50cm (guessing). It has been stripped of decals, but has a Sanwa headbadge, and she says it is about 1976/77 vintage. Here is where it gets interesting:
Fancy lugs that look like Nervex, but might be a Japanese copy.
Full Shimano 600 Arabesque groupset - brakes and all.
Tan (more like beige) in color. The entire bike is painted this color - no chrome "stockings" on stays or fork. I suppose it could be an old repaint, but she says no.
The bike is quite light, but I'll weigh it later when I get home.
Anyone have any idea what model this is, or what tubing was used?
Fancy lugs that look like Nervex, but might be a Japanese copy.
Full Shimano 600 Arabesque groupset - brakes and all.
Tan (more like beige) in color. The entire bike is painted this color - no chrome "stockings" on stays or fork. I suppose it could be an old repaint, but she says no.
The bike is quite light, but I'll weigh it later when I get home.
Anyone have any idea what model this is, or what tubing was used?
08-01-16, 01:49 PM
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Based on the Shimano 600EX (arabeseque) it should be a Sanwa 250. These typically surface with Tange #4 (single butted ) tubesets. Shimano 600Ex would place it 1978-1983. The serial number may narrow down that range.
08-01-16, 08:13 PM
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Rafters Rescue Sanwa - details
Okay, so I've just returned home from a gathering of "Gentlemen Cyclists" at a local brew pub. I showed this bike to the experts there, and while they all agree this is a high-end bike, they cannot tell me which model. The fancy lugs have them stumped, for one thing.
The story goes: Our accountant at work saved up all summer of, she thinks 1976, to buy this particular bike. It was the best bike the LBS had in stock that would fit her. She doesn't remember the model number, but she does remember it cost $380.
She rode it until she got her driver's license in 1978, and then up in the rafters it went. Where it remained until yesterday, when her husband took it down. It still has all the original equipment, including the tires, cables, and handlebar tape; and a generous coating of dust on the underside of all the tubes.
Here are the photos I was able to get when I got home. Sorry for the poor quality, I had to shoot fast as I was losing the light.
Measurements I was able to get tonight are: 30.5 inch standover height, and 52 cm center crank to seat tube top. Oh, I forgot to shoot the fork lugs, those are very cool. I'll do that tomorrow.
I don't understand why there aren't any decals - she tells me she doesn't remember removing them. But I am hoping someone here knows what model this is, and maybe help me decide whether to just clean it up, tune it up, and sell it, keeping it as original as possible - or go for a full restoration.
The story goes: Our accountant at work saved up all summer of, she thinks 1976, to buy this particular bike. It was the best bike the LBS had in stock that would fit her. She doesn't remember the model number, but she does remember it cost $380.
She rode it until she got her driver's license in 1978, and then up in the rafters it went. Where it remained until yesterday, when her husband took it down. It still has all the original equipment, including the tires, cables, and handlebar tape; and a generous coating of dust on the underside of all the tubes.
Here are the photos I was able to get when I got home. Sorry for the poor quality, I had to shoot fast as I was losing the light.
Measurements I was able to get tonight are: 30.5 inch standover height, and 52 cm center crank to seat tube top. Oh, I forgot to shoot the fork lugs, those are very cool. I'll do that tomorrow.
I don't understand why there aren't any decals - she tells me she doesn't remember removing them. But I am hoping someone here knows what model this is, and maybe help me decide whether to just clean it up, tune it up, and sell it, keeping it as original as possible - or go for a full restoration.
08-02-16, 05:21 AM
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It's definitely not a 1976 as that is Shimano 600EX, which did not debut until the 1978. If you want corroboration on the year. post the serial number or check the date codes on the backs of the 600EX components against the information on the components page of the Vintage-Trek website.
It's very strange that all the decals have been removed, given that the bicycle supposedly went into storage in 1978, but the 600EX equipped Sanwa model was the 250.
It's very strange that all the decals have been removed, given that the bicycle supposedly went into storage in 1978, but the 600EX equipped Sanwa model was the 250.
08-02-16, 06:18 AM
#5
Champion of the Low End
I have a Sanwa with a similar headbadge; the bike came with the same 600 group. If I recall correctly, the decals weren't under clearcoat and were flaking off badly, so I removed them.
08-02-16, 06:22 AM
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Thanks, guys. I'll see if I can get that serial number tonight after work. I looked in the usual place under the BB, but it wasn't there. Either that, or I missed it in the poor lighting, and underneath all that dust.
@tmar, you are probably right about the date. This owner could easily be mistaken. I'm not going to make an issue of it - why look a gift horse in the mouth?
@tmar, you are probably right about the date. This owner could easily be mistaken. I'm not going to make an issue of it - why look a gift horse in the mouth?
08-02-16, 06:40 AM
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Budget Bicycle Center - 1980 Sanwa 250
08-02-16, 07:20 AM
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Thanks for pointing out the model number! Following that to this link shows me my bike with decals intact, over the paint.
Budget Bicycle Center - 1980 Sanwa 250
Budget Bicycle Center - 1980 Sanwa 250
08-02-16, 07:24 AM
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Champion of the Low End
Honestly I never even knew what the model number was until TMar stated it above.
Last edited by Primitive Don; 08-02-16 at 07:28 AM.
08-02-16, 08:50 AM
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Some info from user pcb in a thread about my later model Sanwa mixte:
We worked out that Dodsun was the manufacturer of my 1987 model. Not sure if that means they also made this earlier model but could be.
Sanwa was the house brand for Wisconsin Cycle Supply (WCS), a regional wholesaler based in Sheboygan, not Mwke. Their dealer base was mostly in WI/MN. Sharon Behrens was probably running the company when your Sanwa was imported, in the early-/mid-'80s. I handled the B-level distributors when I was at Suntour, so Sharon/WCS was my customer, as was Olympic Cycle Supply, Don and Paul Goniu, in Mwke, and Quality Bicycle Products (they were small/local in '84), in Minneapolis. I'd visit all three on sales trips. There was a restaurant/truck stop at the highway exit for Sheboygan with a giant sign overhead reading only "CHEESE", no other name, no sign declaring "Restaurant" or "Grill." Just CHEESE. That was my sign that I was really in Wisconsin, and I never missed the exit. Never managed to buy any cheese there.
Many local/regional distributors back then carried house brands for their bigger dealers to use as B-/C-lines, and for smaller dealers to use as A-/B-lines. WCS had Sanwa, Olympic (and Howard Georger in Buffalo, District Cycle in Wash, DC, Clayton Cycle in St. Louis) had Takara. The Gonius had their brand, Sharon had hers. I was selling them after-market components, tools and small parts, and they were spec'ing and buying the bikes through Japanese trading companies, so we didn't talk much about their bikes. Generally the lines were kinda condensed, mostly entry-/mid-level, casual/family-oriented models.
There was a Sanwa bicycle brand/company in Japan, so this wasn't a made-up brand like Nishiki or Centurion, but I don't remember any other distributors carrying Sanwa. Your bike, being a lugged steel frame sourced from Taiwan and not being an ATB or hybrid means probably '80-'84 production or so? By the late '80s most Taiwan-built frames were tig'd ATBs/Hybrids. By '90 WCS was bought out by GT/Riteway, as were several other regional distributors. I would guess Sanwa imports would have stopped after that.
Giant, Merida and AnLun were, IIRC, the biggest Taiwanese mfrs at the time, so there's a good chance your frame came from one of those. But there were other smaller builders, and suppliers could change from year to year.
Many local/regional distributors back then carried house brands for their bigger dealers to use as B-/C-lines, and for smaller dealers to use as A-/B-lines. WCS had Sanwa, Olympic (and Howard Georger in Buffalo, District Cycle in Wash, DC, Clayton Cycle in St. Louis) had Takara. The Gonius had their brand, Sharon had hers. I was selling them after-market components, tools and small parts, and they were spec'ing and buying the bikes through Japanese trading companies, so we didn't talk much about their bikes. Generally the lines were kinda condensed, mostly entry-/mid-level, casual/family-oriented models.
There was a Sanwa bicycle brand/company in Japan, so this wasn't a made-up brand like Nishiki or Centurion, but I don't remember any other distributors carrying Sanwa. Your bike, being a lugged steel frame sourced from Taiwan and not being an ATB or hybrid means probably '80-'84 production or so? By the late '80s most Taiwan-built frames were tig'd ATBs/Hybrids. By '90 WCS was bought out by GT/Riteway, as were several other regional distributors. I would guess Sanwa imports would have stopped after that.
Giant, Merida and AnLun were, IIRC, the biggest Taiwanese mfrs at the time, so there's a good chance your frame came from one of those. But there were other smaller builders, and suppliers could change from year to year.
08-02-16, 01:31 PM
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I've been eyeing that SRAM Automatix 2-speed hub, with the idea of building a lightweight, grab-n-go type of bike with a coaster brake and no cables.
If this Sanwa proves to be nothing special, I will put all the 600EX groupset up for sale to finance the rest of the build. But if it is somehow special, I guess I'll refurbish it and see what I can sell it for. That would be my first flip.
08-02-16, 01:43 PM
#12
Champion of the Low End
That's close to what I want to do with this one - but more of a roadster build like this:
-----
If this Sanwa proves to be nothing special, I will put all the 600EX groupset up for sale to finance the rest of the build. But if it is somehow special, I guess I'll refurbish it and see what I can sell it for. That would be my first flip.
-----
If this Sanwa proves to be nothing special, I will put all the 600EX groupset up for sale to finance the rest of the build. But if it is somehow special, I guess I'll refurbish it and see what I can sell it for. That would be my first flip.
When I bought my Sanwa, I was really just looking to transplant the 600 group onto my Lotus frame. I had never even heard of Sanwa, honestly. The fork was out of sorts, so I put a replacement chrome gaspipe fork on and built a single speed with a set of Campy cranks and BB and a Miche chainring I got on clearance. I wasn't expecting much, but it really does ride nicely and make me smile. It's the most fun to ride out of all 6 of my bikes (and the Lotus is long gone).
Last edited by Primitive Don; 08-02-16 at 04:57 PM.
08-02-16, 07:01 PM
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Where is the Serial Number?
I went out after work and weighed this bike - 23 lbs. I know the wheels are quite a bit lighter than I am used to, and the tires are 23s, which I've never ridden. The skinniest tires I've got are the 25s on that Fuji "Roadster". But that still seems very light for a mid-range steel bike.
Then I took it out in the sunlight and looked all over for the serial number. I can't find it anywhere!
Can anyone tell me where to find it - it's got to be there... right?
Then I took it out in the sunlight and looked all over for the serial number. I can't find it anywhere!
Can anyone tell me where to find it - it's got to be there... right?
08-03-16, 04:13 PM
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A852942
I'm going to look around the `web, see what I can find out. Unless anyone here can tell me? Like maybe the number starting with 8 confirms that it is indeed a `78 model.
Thanks again, everyone who is helping me out with this.
05-07-20, 05:34 AM
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Vintage Sanwa.
Hello all. A coworker brought in a bicycle that has been hanging in her garage for decades. Man's frame, about 50cm (guessing). It has been stripped of decals, but has a Sanwa headbadge, and she says it is about 1976/77 vintage. Here is where it gets interesting:
Fancy lugs that look like Nervex, but might be a Japanese copy.
Full Shimano 600 Arabesque groupset - brakes and all.
Tan (more like beige) in color. The entire bike is painted this color - no chrome "stockings" on stays or fork. I suppose it could be an old repaint, but she says no.
The bike is quite light, but I'll weigh it later when I get home.
Anyone have any idea what model this is, or what tubing was used?
Fancy lugs that look like Nervex, but might be a Japanese copy.
Full Shimano 600 Arabesque groupset - brakes and all.
Tan (more like beige) in color. The entire bike is painted this color - no chrome "stockings" on stays or fork. I suppose it could be an old repaint, but she says no.
The bike is quite light, but I'll weigh it later when I get home.
Anyone have any idea what model this is, or what tubing was used?
05-07-20, 06:10 AM
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Takara was a USA brand, introduced in late 1973 (1974 model year). It was created by group of 10 distributors headed by Bob Moore out of Oklahoma City. So, while the situation is the same (Japanese manufacturer, USA brand) the brands have different owners. Also, most Takara were sourced from Kuwahara and I have yet to see a Kuwahara manufactured Sanwa. The serial numbers of your bicycles will tell us if they came out of the same factory.
12-05-20, 02:23 PM
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Sanwa
Usually the year would be the second number which would make it a 1975
Thanks, @TenGrainBread, that's exactly where it was hiding. For whatever reason, the numbers are very faint, like they were filled in with paint or not struck firmly enough. I really had to look hard to read them, but here they
A852942
I'm going to look around the `web, see what I can find out. Unless anyone here can tell me? Like maybe the number starting with 8 confirms that it is indeed a `78 model.
Thanks again, everyone who is helping me out with this.
A852942
I'm going to look around the `web, see what I can find out. Unless anyone here can tell me? Like maybe the number starting with 8 confirms that it is indeed a `78 model.
Thanks again, everyone who is helping me out with this.
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