I have been a buyer last few months and scouring ebay and Cl pretty good. I have to say that I have been out of cycling for awhile, grew up with it in 80's but had to get back up to date on many brands, components etc. Basically it all came back in short order, but man I really get tired of established Sellers on ebay etc giving BS or half ass unclear descriptions of bikes and components actual condition. When they know better! I mean really as potencial buyers we all know what we want to hear(see below) and I understand that the photos are part of the description as well. But I am getting really put off by Sellers who know better and either don't describe thier item as the condition it actually is in or use rosy sounding tag words like "Great condition" "Nice Shape" "Great shape" etc.What does "great condtion" mean?? to me it sounds close to Excellent cond but that is not always the case. (Some also try to say as little as possible and say check pictures thats what your getting) and I'm thinking just tell me WTF the actual condition is and I apperciate some good photos fine as well and then I will come to my own conclusions. I already bought a few items that wern't described correctly, and well luckely so far they wern't big ticket purchases. Some Sellers on ebay and especially CL don't go into too much depth because they aren't as knowledgable, so ok then maybe there is a deal to be had or not and they don't know as much, fine I will take that. However established dealers that know exactely what they are selling et,c just give me a real authentic description with the STANDARD CONDITION DESCRIPTION that everyone is familar with. I understand everyone gets stuck with something sometimes and all but I don't want your headache and I want to know exactely what I am getting. Fine make it sound appealing in your own salesmanship way but don't BS me please.

This ebay Seller describes condition the way we all know it should be described and I apprecate it. His prices are a little high on stuff but whatever, thanks for describing items in the proper format. I wish everyone would just describe within these peramiters. (whats going on with spell check on this BF editer btw)

This is from ebay Seller cycleguyjack66. It doesn't have to to be complicated just give me the real condition 411. I also have bought from V*V* Velo out of Netherlands because he describes accuratly short and sweet.

Woody’s Objective Rating System

NIB (new in box) – NEW and NOT used item unblemished in original packaging, zero or close to zero defects
NOS (new old stock) - item is new and NOT used –but- may have shop wear and/or blemishes from age which in no way affect performance.
Excellent - used but in close to new condition, more than 85% service life left
Very Good - used with some blemishes but more than half of it’s service life left – in many cases this can be greatly improved with cleaning/polishing
Good - used with some/many blemishes but more than half of it’s service life left – in many cases this can be improved with cleaning/polishing
Fair - used with many blemishes with less than half of it’s service life left; considered “rider” equipment, NOT concour or resto worthy
Used - no collector value, but viable for “rider” with zero emphasis on appearance
Parts value only- good for small parts, may be broken or completely unusable, but good for salvage.
Woody’s additional Rating System (Plus +) and (Minus -)

All ratings - Excellent/Good/Fair have subjective plus or minus condition:

Excellent ++, Excellent+, Excellent –, Excellent-

Good++, Good +, Good—, Good-

Fair++, Fair+, Fair—, Fair -

We live in a buy be aware world and the on-line world just accentuates that. Put another way, it is up to you to ferret out the information that is important to you.

With that in mind, I published Buying and Selling On Ebay several years ago. The primary focus is on the buyer and his, or her, ability to get information before bidding/buying.

As for a definitive list of condition - what good would it do? Would it really change the situation? I doubt it, but I could be wrong.

Caveat Emptor.

It should be ebay's slogan.

It is what it is.

You can only control what you do. Getting upset about it is purposeless. Besides, any rating is going to be subjective to the person rating it anyway. If it's yours, it's probably going to be better than someone else's.

Use the pictures as your guide, ask questions- ultimately it's your responsibility as a buyer.

Agree with all that, as long as the item isn't affirmatively misrepresented. In that case the buyer should be protected by EBay rules anyway.

It would be nice if sellers gave a museum condition report type description, but let's be real - it takes a lot of time just to list things and write a minimal blurb. I don't buy or sell a ton but I have not been disappointed overall on the buy side. As a seller, I write honest descriptions and try to take accurate photos. Who needs bad karma or returns?

Sorry guys maybe I went on a bit of a rant there. I bought a few duds, and am just noticing some tendiancies of Sellers and don't get why I am am not just given the standard, universal, named condition of the item I am intereseted in? Whatever I am selling thats what I do for the most part. I also will say ask questions and As is etc It shouldnt be hard for an experienced Seller to assess the condition of an item and simply give that information to me as a buyer. I don't feel like I should have to message back and forth to to extract the real info or try to decipher poor photos.
[MENTION=73948]due ruote[/MENTION] I am not asking for a "museum condition report" Just tell me for real in universal standard format language the condition. (like very good condition) Thats half a sentence. Look at v*v*velo's item descrip of his items on ebay that's what he does and why I am buying from him, even though he is far away in Europe.

I also know Buyers have protection on ebay and understand as a Seller also that it can be dificult to turn a profit and it takes work. I did a few returns recently and it was a pain in the ass and I lost money. You want good feedback ratings and ebay is so customer centric that it is hard for Sellers. I don't care for Buyers that take advantage of stuff and make it hard for Sellers. I am not that type of a Buyer. I don't want to hassle with a return, I just want to try get it right the first time and accurate descriptions help.

"Besides, any rating is going to be subjective to the person rating it anyway. If it's yours, it's probably going to be better than someone else's."

I'll give someone some leeway with a plus or minus maybe but thats it. Pass some decent photos of bike or components around on forums and usually a majority concensus can be obtained of condition. As an owner the person knows the condition and all I am asking is for an accurate rating in the universal named condition format.

It's a wild wild west out there.

I always like the line "the images tell the story of condition"
Of course, save the flaws not imaged!
(like a top tube dent)
So it goes...

Ebay is a gamble. Like every form of gambling, there is always the possibility of loss. If you can't take losing every so often, you probably should not gamble (or buy/sell on ebay). Its old bike parts worth a couple of bucks, not commodities or stocks and bonds.


.

Don't tell that to Gridplan.

What do you expect the seller to tell you that the pictures won't?

The seller has the responsibility of not misrepresenting the item. That's about it.

I expect some sort of description and any flaws to be notated.

The 'accurate rating system' is completely irrelevant when there's people, with all the conviction in the world, who's application of the word "mint" means "only used hard for less than ten years or so." Don't even start on the word "rare."

" What do you expect the seller to tell you that the pictures won't?"

Plenty, You can't always see everything from the photos and I don't feel I as a buyer I should have to work extra hard to figure out the condtion of an item from an image for whatever reason that doesn't always tell whole story. A good ad gives you the condition in the Universal Fair, good, very good, Exc +- format that IMO everyone should use. Any flaws, wear etc should be described as well. Good photo's (And I have seen plenty of bad ones) facilitates this description to complete a good straight forward ad with no BS.

Ok so case and point because good photos can say alot but are often few and far between. Lets say you want to let the photos be your description when you are selling a used set of wheels I am ok with that but please take excellent photos of the sides of the rim to show brake wear especially. And a picture is not going to tell me if there is a hop in the rim and if the hubs turn ok. It needs to be a combination of both.

I am ok with Mint or NM that means excellent in my book. "great shape" is a little different what does that mean?

Rare I don't have a real problem with, but it is overused. and I realize rare doesn't always mean valuable

Nice try but this dude titles it mint but then a description of a scratch here and there, some dings, and some extra cost for the attached freewheel (or group??). Whateva
Mint 130mm 8 Speed Suntour Superbe Pro Wheelset | eBay

I think the condition ratings should either be NEW or USED.

If you are relying on seller to tell you everything that you need to know, you are almost always going to be disappointed. If you do not have the skill or experience to make those determinations on you,r own regardless of the seller's description, you should not be entering in these types of transactions.

Personally all of the things you complain about, are the attributes I look for in an add, listing etc.. Bad pics, hyperbole, poor descriptions, etc. These are the identifiers of someone who does not actually know what they are selling, from a value perspective. That is where the deals are. You may have to wade though a lot junk but that is the price for finding a deal.

Your need for standardization shows that maybe you don't feel confident in your ability to discern a good vs. a not so good deal.

I already mentioned that the Sellers get a free pass that aren't that familiar maybe with bikes and what they have but just put up an ad. Thats where you can sniff out a deal sometimes, but there is still risk because of lack of information or decent photos. Other than that, Re: EXPERIENCED SELLERs I don't think I am asking for that much to have them accurately NAME the condition of something they are selling under the universal format, that everyone is familar with. I really don't understand the hesitation and if thats the case I will just say next.

I've noticed some experienced sellers use the less info route and will make you ask or you get what they give you. That is not cool when they know there is a red flag, I guess they expect experienced buyer to see it but what about inexperienced. I ask and research a good amount, but no one is guaranteed exactly what they want when buying parts or doing anything else.

I've noticed the nefarious trend grow...of listing no condition specifics at all. It bothers me. But what they know is that anything they say, or write down, could be used against them.

"The pictures are the description." yeah, right. It's a CYA tactic. Let the buyer figure out the condition. Even if I don't post enough clear and high grade photos that he is able to do so. I like to post as concise a written condition report as I can. And I love it when a buyer leaves feedback like "much better than described!"
Makes my day.