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Need help IDing rusty frame
Alright, here goes. So I picked up a frame a few weeks ago and I can't figure out what it is, which is bothering me. It looks like a Japanese frame, but I'm unsure. Brazed on cable guides and one set of bottle bosses on the downtube. Serial number is 6R4492 and is located on the seat tube a few inches above the bottom bracket on the non-drive side. I'll attach a few pics of the frame. Thanks a bunch.
MattV22 https://s22.postimg.org/t02fjliod/IMG_0406.jpg https://s22.postimg.org/lld3r7wst/IMG_0407.jpg https://s22.postimg.org/n1t7n3p3h/IMG_0408.jpg https://s22.postimg.org/ih71865e5/IMG_0409.jpg https://s22.postimg.org/vzdxkghjh/IMG_0410.jpg https://s22.postimg.org/f04z576bx/IMG_0412.jpg |
Any idea of the BB threading and seatpost diameter?
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BB is ISO. Haven't brought it in to work yet to use our seatpost gauge.
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yes it seems to have those ornate Japanese lugs that look approximately like Nervex pros but then these also have extended spear points...not sure what brand combined the features like this but I also guess something JP.
Serial number and location (which is unusual) will be a good clue for someone like [MENTION=20650]T-Mar[/MENTION] |
Are there any headplate fastener holes?
Cable guide appears home made. |
Originally Posted by unworthy1
(Post 19055561)
yes it seems to have those ornate Japanese lugs that look approximately like Nervex pros but then these also have extended spear points...not sure what brand combined the features like this but I also guess something JP.
Serial number and location (which is unusual) will be a good clue for someone like [MENTION=20650]T-Mar[/MENTION] Don't run off and think the top tube and BB shell braze ons are original… Maybe, maybe not. |
There are 2 holes about an inch apart for a head badge
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Originally Posted by MattV22
(Post 19055779)
There are 2 holes about an inch apart for a head badge
We are certainly on Honshu here in the 1970's. Thinking something like Centurion Semi-Pro ca. 1973-74. Unfortunately, am away from me headplate collection this week so will not be able to check that fastener dimension against the holdings for a few days... |
They are indeed horizontal juvela. Bottle bosses were fairly uncommon in the 70's right?
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Originally Posted by MattV22
(Post 19055844)
They are indeed horizontal juvela. Bottle bosses were fairly uncommon in the 70's right?
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Dropouts stamped?
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They are not stamped. Possibly Suntour?
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FWIW, per my database, that particular serial number, with a 'R' as the 2nd character, has been reported on Royce Unions. However, this looks a bit better than we typically see from Royce Union. The serial number format may just be that of one of Royce Union's Japanese sources. Best candidate for year is 1976.
I don't think this is a Centurion Semi-Pro. I've seen plenty from this period and they're routinely Miki product with the distinctive wrapover, chromed, stay caps and chromed head lugs. |
Perhaps someone else can jump in here, but I have never seen a serial number in that location. Top of seat tube, yes -- Capo and Allegro, for example, but not bottom.
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Come on guys, you're not supposed to not know. I was hoping that my Google-Fu wasn't working properly, but it seems we're all lost on this frame.
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Originally Posted by John E
(Post 19056087)
Perhaps someone else can jump in here, but I have never seen a serial number in that location. Top of seat tube, yes -- Capo and Allegro, for example, but not bottom.
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I would agree with [MENTION=333224]juvela[/MENTION] that the frame was worked on.
The lugs look an awful lot like the ones on mid-70s Centurion Super Lemans, top of the seat stays, too. Images from various BF threads: http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=249393 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=249395 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=249394 http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2721/4...4bd73424_b.jpg http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/...psxdblepbg.jpg Some Centurions did have serial numbers stamped in that location, although the format is a bit different (didn't want to include this image here as it's Big McLargeHuge): https://app.box.com/shared/static/tg...xkbtkgn6pr.jpg |
MauriceMoss, that's it! I knew someone would know what it is. Thank you very very much!
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wrt serial nr. placement -
as stated by T-Mar, numerous manufacturers employed this placement. here are three examples. blue and white cycles are Vista brand. red bike is an Araya. https://s10.postimg.io/ynu7oejdl/IMG_0312.jpg https://myalbum.com/photo/Guj23eZYJjob/1k0.jpg http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...hmentid=468650 wrt head emblem - Centurion had three sizes of head emblem at this era. They were used depending on frame size - head tube length. The brown cycle posted by MauriceMoss is a 23" nominal so it wears the medium size head emblem. |
nice job MauriceMoss! and nice follow-up, juvela!
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Hello MattV22,
It sounds like you are content with this identification. Keep in mind that the same exact bicycles were also sold under another name, that of Ventura. The second badge permits a distributor to pack more product into a given market, a common practice. http://velobase.com/VeloImages/Headb...060AA0901.jpeg http://velobase.com/VeloImages/Headb...4A3292BC7.jpeg The forum has had several discussions of Ventura bicycles, in case you are interested. |
Ive seen the Sn placement also on earlier Centurions, along with the color bands stickers on the seat post, it was a 1976 Centurion Super Lemans. Not sure if the Ventura's had them also.
just my $.02 |
Completely off topic, but I notice you're affiliated with the Fort Collins bike co-op in some way fleslider. Until I got a job at a real shop I volunteered a lot of my time at the Corvallis Bicycle Collective and remember our board members having a discussion with you guys at a board meeting once. Can't recall exactly what it was about.
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