Need help IDing rusty frame
09-14-16 | 01:55 AM
#1
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Need help IDing rusty frame
Alright, here goes. So I picked up a frame a few weeks ago and I can't figure out what it is, which is bothering me. It looks like a Japanese frame, but I'm unsure. Brazed on cable guides and one set of bottle bosses on the downtube. Serial number is 6R4492 and is located on the seat tube a few inches above the bottom bracket on the non-drive side. I'll attach a few pics of the frame. Thanks a bunch.
MattV22
MattV22
09-14-16 | 07:14 AM
#2
Bianchi Goddess
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From: Shady Pines Retirement Fort Wayne, In
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Any idea of the BB threading and seatpost diameter?
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“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
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“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
09-14-16 | 12:42 PM
#4
yes it seems to have those ornate Japanese lugs that look approximately like Nervex pros but then these also have extended spear points...not sure what brand combined the features like this but I also guess something JP.
Serial number and location (which is unusual) will be a good clue for someone like [MENTION=20650]T-Mar[/MENTION]
Serial number and location (which is unusual) will be a good clue for someone like [MENTION=20650]T-Mar[/MENTION]
09-14-16 | 01:52 PM
#6
yes it seems to have those ornate Japanese lugs that look approximately like Nervex pros but then these also have extended spear points...not sure what brand combined the features like this but I also guess something JP.
Serial number and location (which is unusual) will be a good clue for someone like [MENTION=20650]T-Mar[/MENTION]
Serial number and location (which is unusual) will be a good clue for someone like [MENTION=20650]T-Mar[/MENTION]
Don't run off and think the top tube and BB shell braze ons are original…
Maybe, maybe not.
09-14-16 | 02:20 PM
#8
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From photos appears they are horizontal. Is that correct?
We are certainly on Honshu here in the 1970's.
Thinking something like Centurion Semi-Pro ca. 1973-74.
Unfortunately, am away from me headplate collection this week so will not be able to check that fastener dimension against the holdings for a few days...
We are certainly on Honshu here in the 1970's.
Thinking something like Centurion Semi-Pro ca. 1973-74.
Unfortunately, am away from me headplate collection this week so will not be able to check that fastener dimension against the holdings for a few days...
Last edited by juvela; 09-14-16 at 02:39 PM. Reason: addition
09-14-16 | 03:20 PM
#13
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FWIW, per my database, that particular serial number, with a 'R' as the 2nd character, has been reported on Royce Unions. However, this looks a bit better than we typically see from Royce Union. The serial number format may just be that of one of Royce Union's Japanese sources. Best candidate for year is 1976.
I don't think this is a Centurion Semi-Pro. I've seen plenty from this period and they're routinely Miki product with the distinctive wrapover, chromed, stay caps and chromed head lugs.
I don't think this is a Centurion Semi-Pro. I've seen plenty from this period and they're routinely Miki product with the distinctive wrapover, chromed, stay caps and chromed head lugs.
09-14-16 | 04:16 PM
#14
feros ferio
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Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;
Perhaps someone else can jump in here, but I have never seen a serial number in that location. Top of seat tube, yes -- Capo and Allegro, for example, but not bottom.
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"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
09-14-16 | 05:15 PM
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09-15-16 | 03:14 PM
#17
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I would agree with [MENTION=333224]juvela[/MENTION] that the frame was worked on.
The lugs look an awful lot like the ones on mid-70s Centurion Super Lemans, top of the seat stays, too. Images from various BF threads:
Some Centurions did have serial numbers stamped in that location, although the format is a bit different (didn't want to include this image here as it's Big McLargeHuge):
https://app.box.com/shared/static/tg...xkbtkgn6pr.jpg
The lugs look an awful lot like the ones on mid-70s Centurion Super Lemans, top of the seat stays, too. Images from various BF threads:
Some Centurions did have serial numbers stamped in that location, although the format is a bit different (didn't want to include this image here as it's Big McLargeHuge):
https://app.box.com/shared/static/tg...xkbtkgn6pr.jpg
09-15-16 | 04:41 PM
#19
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wrt serial nr. placement -
as stated by T-Mar, numerous manufacturers employed this placement. here are three examples. blue and white cycles are Vista brand. red bike is an Araya.
wrt head emblem -
Centurion had three sizes of head emblem at this era. They were used depending on frame size - head tube length. The brown cycle posted by MauriceMoss is a 23" nominal so it wears the medium size head emblem.
as stated by T-Mar, numerous manufacturers employed this placement. here are three examples. blue and white cycles are Vista brand. red bike is an Araya.
wrt head emblem -
Centurion had three sizes of head emblem at this era. They were used depending on frame size - head tube length. The brown cycle posted by MauriceMoss is a 23" nominal so it wears the medium size head emblem.
09-15-16 | 08:52 PM
#21
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Hello MattV22,
It sounds like you are content with this identification. Keep in mind that the same exact bicycles were also sold under another name, that of Ventura.
The second badge permits a distributor to pack more product into a given market, a common practice.
The forum has had several discussions of Ventura bicycles, in case you are interested.
It sounds like you are content with this identification. Keep in mind that the same exact bicycles were also sold under another name, that of Ventura.
The second badge permits a distributor to pack more product into a given market, a common practice.
The forum has had several discussions of Ventura bicycles, in case you are interested.
09-16-16 | 09:57 PM
#22
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From: Fort Collins, CO
Bikes: 1974 Paramount ~ 1974 Raleigh Pro ~ 1977 Pro-Tour ~ 1978 TX900 ~ IronMan 85,87:E/M,88:M/Pro,89:E ~ 98 Peugeot Festina Replica
Ive seen the Sn placement also on earlier Centurions, along with the color bands stickers on the seat post, it was a 1976 Centurion Super Lemans. Not sure if the Ventura's had them also.
just my $.02
just my $.02
09-17-16 | 02:15 AM
#23
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Completely off topic, but I notice you're affiliated with the Fort Collins bike co-op in some way fleslider. Until I got a job at a real shop I volunteered a lot of my time at the Corvallis Bicycle Collective and remember our board members having a discussion with you guys at a board meeting once. Can't recall exactly what it was about.
