jorglueke

This relates to my general forum questions about wheels. Based on the specs in the attached pic for the Nomade or Mirage what considerations do I need to make.

I understand about the hub length. The wheel size. Mainly I'm wondering about the compatibility between derailleur, hub, and sprockets.

I have the old Huret Svelto short cage, the specs on it and the original bike say 14/28. Do the number of cogs matter? Should I stick to an original 6 or is 7 OK?

Once I have the freewheel how does compatibility with the hub come into play? Will any free hub work with any freewheel of the correct size?

Lascauxcaveman 

I think the age of the bike matters, here. French threading is different, at least on bikes made before 81-82, when the French builders started using normal stuff. What year is your bike? Does it have its original wheel set?

jorglueke

My frame is 72 or 73. It's french sizing. I don't have a wheel set, I have he crank and the derailleurs. I don't think threading is going to matter for the wheels/hub/freewheel.

Lascauxcaveman 

In that case, match the freewheel to the hubs on the wheel set you end up with. If you end up with old French threaded hubs, you'll need a French threaded freewheel. Most of the stuff you'll find these days is "English" (USA, Japanese) threaded. The main thing about fitting the freewheel to the hub is the axel and lock nut have to ride out a bit further than the small cog on the freewheel, so that small cog isn't rubbing on the dropout, and there's enough space for the chain to get on and off the small cog.

The dropouts on your steel frame can stretch a bit to fit in a 126 or 130mm hub, but a bike that old is likely currently spaced to 120 mm on the dropouts. A 126mm hub (typical for 6 or 7 speed freewheels) is going to be a tight fit, 130mm even tighter. The rear triangle can be cold set (google it) to fit properly with whatever size hub you end up with.

I've never used a Svelto derailleur, but I know it's pretty old. Anecdotally, every derailleur I've ever tried has been adjustable enough to shift 6 or 7 cogs easily enough, but not sure about that one.

I was recently working on my sister's old 1977 Nomade and its a very low-end, sorta heavy, nothing-special bike. Don't spend too much money on yours, you'll never get it back on resale.

Salamandrine 

Just to fill in the obvious, the bike would have come with 120mm rear spacing and a 5 speed freewheel. 2 x 5 = 10 speeds... 6 speed was still exotic. Yeah, you could spread it out to 126 and use a 6 speed if you want.

Freehubs did not exist yet. It would have had a freewheel, with french threads. You don't need to use a wheel with french threads, but if you are replacing the freewheel only you need a french one IIRC, depending on the year(I forget if Motos ever went to english?). I don't know what you are trying to do or where the other thread you reference is.

bulldog1935

actually, he said he doesn't have wheels.
You want to stick to 120-126mm rear hub. Whether you use a freewheel or switch to a freehub/cassette depends on what you can find/afford.

I strongly recommend 700c over the original 27-inch - your stock brakes will have the adjustment to cover it easily.
(and if you don't have brakes, buy long-reach)
This would give you a world of tire options.

You can easily use an Ultra6 freewheel with a 120mm hub. With a 126mm, you can go up to 7 in the rear.
It would be a good idea to cold-set the rear triangles if you do go to 126mm.

Vintage SunTour would be the best choice for rear derailleur with friction shifting.

If you have a big budget for wheels, you can build a modern freehub/cassette wheelset
Compass offers these hubs and cassettes https://www.compasscycle.com/product...mponents/hubs/
With a correct new derailleur hanger, you could go to a modern Shimano-compatible RD with index shifting if you wanted.

You should also check wheel options at Velo Orange https://store.velo-orange.com/index.p...eels/700c.html

Across the board, front hubs are 100mm

If you go with a conventional narrow freewheel hub, I still have a VG Ultra6 freewheel around here, 13-27t

Salamandrine 

OK, I missed the OP's second post.

I don't disagree with anything that's been suggested, but the easiest depends on what is available to you. One option would be to find a set of old but serviceable wheels in the same size at a coop or something. The other option would be to use a new set of wheels from velomine or something in 126. You'd need to spread the frame slightly, as has been said. For the latter, an easily available standard 6 or 7 speed freewheel could be used, though 7 might require an extra washer, as the spacing can get tight.

If you go to 700c keep in mind they are 4mm smaller in radius than 27", and brakes need to have 4mm of adjustment room.

I wouldn't get too fancy with a Mirage or Nomade. They were entry level bikes.

bulldog1935

here's what's possible with that frame (and as I mentioned if you go with a newer cassette hub and derailleur hanger, Shimano index shifting, though friction works great...)



don't let people dis your bike


ps - with long-reach brakes, you could even go to 650b on the wheels, giving room in your frame for big tires
whatever you put into wheels, you will always have them
only skimp to pre-made 27" if you're on a tight budget - any 120mm off-the-shelf freewheel wheelset will fit an Ultra6 freewheel

pss back to wheelbuilding.
Don't know how your LBS works, but mine will take 80% off wheelbuilding labor if you buy all the parts through them.
LBS can order anything from anywhere.

jorglueke

Thanks for the helpful responses. This frame is for me to play/learn on without damaging anything of value. I have maintained most of my riding bike over time but I want to do more. This frame was $20. The rear dropout currently measures 125mm so if 120mm was standard then someone had something bigger in there already. I'm thinking 6/7 speed and trying out the old Huret derailleur.

I like the CR18 rims a front wheel with that is $40 at REI new if I can't get a better deal on something used. Someone in the general forum suggested going with tubulars but I don't know about that on this bike. So I'm leaning CR18 rim with 125mm hub and then 6/7 speeds.

bulldog1935

The Deore/CR18 at REI is 135mm - you don't want to stretch that far.

Search through these and stick to 126mm - note some of these are cassette hubs, and others are freewheel hubs

You may have to go to Compass to get a cassette. Thought might find some on ebay.

whatever you put into this frame to make it functional - you will have that stuff and may want to move it to another frame some day.
But these frames are not dogs, they have good geometry for most riding, they're still reasonably lightweight, and they're built to last.
My best college buddy had a Mirage and it was every bit as good as my Grand Prix, which I've ridden 40 years (in four different forms).
You'll have one better than new, because you'll start with better components, and wheels define the nature of any bike.

Narhay

If you don't have wheels a used pair of alloy wheels would be best. If you can't find those then you can get some of these : https://www.velomine.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=87_172_176&zenid=ve8ckr14eoiaeoqm4lpdcv8ga2

The bottom bracket, stem and headset are likely French sized. If you don't have wheels then don't worry about the freewheel threading until you have the wheels. It is not a fancy bike and instead of spending a bunch of money building it up you could buy a nicer fixer upper frame complete with parts for less than you would spend on this.

jorglueke

I could, but as I mentioned this one is for learning. I can touch up paint and replace and install everything without worrying about messing up something of value. Plus now I feel like this bike needs to be ridden at least ine more time.

crank_addict

Your coin of course but I wouldn't rule out building a set of wheels out of old hubs and rims. Consider it a rewarding and learning process. Often, used hubs and older ally 700c rims can be found for near free to $20 a pair. Investment is in new spokes and your time.

Example are Normandy or the numerous high flange Schwinn labeled hubs abandoned with rusty spokes and 27 inch hoops. Take them for the hubs and if needed, swap out axles and reconfigure spacers.

The hub will denote the thread, so match a respectable range freewheel to it. Easy to make a 6 speed for your stock frame width. I dig the archaic SVELTO but use only up to a 6 speed, could cheat with chain wrap depending where you place the axle in the dropout, a 28t cog might work, no problem with 26t. Would think the common older 5 or 6 speeds use a 14t for the tall gear. What are your chainrings?

You'll likely spend more for the rubber than the entire wheel build.

Tubulars are a whole different mindset. Thoroughly study up before committing.

noglider 

The Svelto derailleur probably can't swing left and right wide enough to cover 7 speeds. 6 speeds, it probably can.

bulldog1935

I mentioned the Suntour, because my Cyclone GT is perfect with 7 in the rear.