Just snagged a Mondia
10-21-16, 02:33 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Just snagged a Mondia
I can't believe this sweet Swiss bike is in my friend's truck and he's bringing it to me next week.
The seller put it as a 1974, which seems right based on the limited research I've done on these bikes here and elsewhere. You can see the serial number in one of the pics. I compared it to this chart here: https://www.classicrendezvous.com/Swi...al_numbers.htm
It's built up as a fixed gear (which I want). Has Sugino Maxy cranks and some unknown chain ring. Non-stock Velo Orange headset with the stock stem and bars. Non stock shimano brake. Non stock saddle. Not sure about the seat post but it looks like it might be original I'm not sure about the brand of rims and and hubs but I don't think they are stock. They are 700cs.
He said he is the second or third owner and the decals are original... I don't know about that. I've seen the Mondia labels but since these were Swiss bikes who knows? Maybe those Tour De Suisse stickers are original. Somehow I doubt it.
In either case, when I saw this pop up on Craigslist for $200 I knew I had to have it. I was drooling over the lug work. Can't wait to get in the saddle!
The seller put it as a 1974, which seems right based on the limited research I've done on these bikes here and elsewhere. You can see the serial number in one of the pics. I compared it to this chart here: https://www.classicrendezvous.com/Swi...al_numbers.htm
It's built up as a fixed gear (which I want). Has Sugino Maxy cranks and some unknown chain ring. Non-stock Velo Orange headset with the stock stem and bars. Non stock shimano brake. Non stock saddle. Not sure about the seat post but it looks like it might be original I'm not sure about the brand of rims and and hubs but I don't think they are stock. They are 700cs.
He said he is the second or third owner and the decals are original... I don't know about that. I've seen the Mondia labels but since these were Swiss bikes who knows? Maybe those Tour De Suisse stickers are original. Somehow I doubt it.
In either case, when I saw this pop up on Craigslist for $200 I knew I had to have it. I was drooling over the lug work. Can't wait to get in the saddle!
Last edited by Dougbloch; 10-21-16 at 02:37 PM. Reason: Added some more info on the bike
10-21-16, 04:39 PM
#2
Senior Member
Beautiful lugs, but why would they go through all that work then stamp the sn on the seatstay caps?
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Semper fi
Semper fi
10-21-16, 04:44 PM
#3
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Thread Starter
10-21-16, 07:26 PM
#4
feros ferio
Join Date: Jul 2000
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Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;
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That frame is built like a Swiss watch, and it looks to be in superb condition. I know you and the seller are into fixed gear, but I still think it is a mistake to hack off the derailleur tab.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
10-21-16, 09:13 PM
#5
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Pretty nice for 2 bills. So was the derailer tab hacked on this one? Not into fixed myself but don't really understand all the used to be original roadbike conversions. When I see one I am thinking (((damage control))) and is it worth it to convert back? most cases not.
If want fixed gear why don't guys just get an authentic Track/Pista bike? Like this one, if was my size might jump on it, even though am older, but never was a Fixed guy anyway.
Ultimate Fixie 1986 Miyata Team track bike
If want fixed gear why don't guys just get an authentic Track/Pista bike? Like this one, if was my size might jump on it, even though am older, but never was a Fixed guy anyway.
Ultimate Fixie 1986 Miyata Team track bike
10-21-16, 09:17 PM
#6
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I actually haven't seen the bike yet in person. I don't know who cut that off but I wouldn't have done that to this beauty. I know these frames are rare and who knows if I ever would want to convert it back to a road bike.
Nevertheless, I ride fixed gears right now so I am fine with this. I am thrilled to get it, especially for the price.
Nevertheless, I ride fixed gears right now so I am fine with this. I am thrilled to get it, especially for the price.
10-22-16, 06:27 AM
#7
verktyg
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Most Mondias imported into the US during the 1970s had all Reynolds 531 frames with Campy dropouts.
Your frame was probably a private label model Tour de Suisse with stamped steel dropouts.
Here's a link from 2010 with lots of good speculation:
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...-question.html
Mondia and several other Swiss makes stamped the serial numbers into the top of the left side seat stays. Here's my bike boom era Mondia Special:
verktyg
Chas.
Your frame was probably a private label model Tour de Suisse with stamped steel dropouts.
Here's a link from 2010 with lots of good speculation:
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...-question.html
Mondia and several other Swiss makes stamped the serial numbers into the top of the left side seat stays. Here's my bike boom era Mondia Special:
verktyg
Chas.
__________________
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
10-22-16, 07:18 AM
#8
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Most Mondias imported into the US during the 1970s had all Reynolds 531 frames with Campy dropouts.
Your frame was probably a private label model Tour de Suisse with stamped steel dropouts.
Here's a link from 2010 with lots of good speculation:
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...-question.html
Mondia and several other Swiss makes stamped the serial numbers into the top of the left side seat stays. Here's my bike boom era Mondia Special:
verktyg
Chas.
Your frame was probably a private label model Tour de Suisse with stamped steel dropouts.
Here's a link from 2010 with lots of good speculation:
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...-question.html
Mondia and several other Swiss makes stamped the serial numbers into the top of the left side seat stays. Here's my bike boom era Mondia Special:
verktyg
Chas.
Seeing as they chopped the derailleur this bike already will never see its former glory. I might feel liberated to change it up a little more. Some Sugino 75s might be nicer on it heh heh.
10-22-16, 07:47 AM
#9
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10-22-16, 08:00 AM
#10
Senior Member
Great looking frame! I love the lugs. Looking at those stamped steel dropouts there's no reason to assume that bike ever had a derailleur hanger. It likely would have used a claw mount. I haven't seen too many stamped steel dropouts with an integrated hanger. Cool bike, anyway.
10-22-16, 11:08 AM
#11
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Just found some more info on the Mondia Tour De Suisse from this thread. Looks like I scored a rare bike.
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...tour-bike.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...tour-bike.html
Very late into the fray (dead thread). The Tour de Suisse" was an actual brand, or sub-brand as it was made by Mondia. I had two of them as hand me downs from Dad and grand pop. They bought 4 of them in all from Ridgewood Cycle in NJ. I think they were about $250 each, which i guess was not cheap for back then. Very nice Reynolds 531 nervex lugged frame. Circa 1973-ish i think. They were only made for a short time. Generally they were a bright orange or an ugly gold with white detail around the lugs. The decal/logo was a map of Switzerland. Mine had Mainly shimano stuff, weinman brakes and weinman wheelsets...something on it was suntour but can recall which, 3T stem. The bottom of the Fork and lugs were chromed which looked awesome. This is the extent of my knowledge. A simple google search reveals several images out there...most of them are beat up. Mine was in very nice shape other than the wheel set which was bent from when I got hit by a car. I had it stored at my brother's garage..I found out he sold it for $25 a couple years back to a co-worker....nearly strangled him. The OP is probably no longer monitoring this but figured I would post for posterity.
10-22-16, 01:09 PM
#12
verktyg
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Thanks! I was wondering about that. I'll have to ask my buddy about the dropouts as I won't actually take possession of the bike until next weekend.
Seeing as they chopped the derailleur this bike already will never see its former glory. I might feel liberated to change it up a little more. Some Sugino 75s might be nicer on it heh heh.
Seeing as they chopped the derailleur this bike already will never see its former glory. I might feel liberated to change it up a little more. Some Sugino 75s might be nicer on it heh heh.
If you scroll down to post # 9 in this link that I posted you can see that the stamped dropouts didn't have an integral derailleur hanger. The bike pictured in that thread was probably all original???
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...-question.html
Back in the early 70's Campagnolo dropouts cost bike manufacturers over $10.00 USD a set (which was a lot of $$$ back then). Since these bikes were made by Mondia as promotional models it wouldn't have made economic sense to spend the extra money because the prospective recipients (Swiss Air customers) probably wouldn't have had a clue about dropouts!
verktyg
Chas.
__________________
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Last edited by verktyg; 10-23-16 at 12:53 AM.
10-22-16, 01:40 PM
#13
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Once again you have nailed it. I will ask my buddy to take a pic of the dropouts.
I was toying with the idea of Sugino 75s, but not sure about it seeing as the bike has a Swiss bottom bracket. I might just keep that crankset on it but replace the chain ring with a vintage Sugino 46t or 48t.
I was toying with the idea of Sugino 75s, but not sure about it seeing as the bike has a Swiss bottom bracket. I might just keep that crankset on it but replace the chain ring with a vintage Sugino 46t or 48t.
HEY EVERYBODY!
If you scroll down to post # 9 in this link that I posted you can see that the stamped dropouts didn't have an integral derailleur hanger. The bike pictured in that thread was probably all original???
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...-question.html
Back in the early 70's Campagnolo dropouts cost bike manufacturers over $10.00 USD a set. Since these were made by mondia as promotional model bikes it wouldn't have made economic sense to spend the extra money because the prospective recipients (Swiss Air customers) probably wouldn't have had a clue about dropouts!
verktyg
Chas.
If you scroll down to post # 9 in this link that I posted you can see that the stamped dropouts didn't have an integral derailleur hanger. The bike pictured in that thread was probably all original???
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...-question.html
Back in the early 70's Campagnolo dropouts cost bike manufacturers over $10.00 USD a set. Since these were made by mondia as promotional model bikes it wouldn't have made economic sense to spend the extra money because the prospective recipients (Swiss Air customers) probably wouldn't have had a clue about dropouts!
verktyg
Chas.
10-22-16, 02:44 PM
#14
feros ferio
Join Date: Jul 2000
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Two examples of stamped DOs w/ hanger. One is single-wall stamped, the other has "fake forged dropouts," with C-shaped flat braze-on overlays.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
10-22-16, 09:37 PM
#15
Senior Member
Thread Starter
The seller told me that these Sugino cranks are mounted on a Swiss bottom bracket. If I want to put Sugino 75s on it do I need to swap out the bottom bracket for another one? Either a 68mm Sugino 75 BB or an ISO one? I have a line on the cranks and a Campagnolo Chorus bracket. Maybe I am overthinking this and should just replace the chainring and keep the stock look on it. After all, I'm not going to be racing it!
10-23-16, 02:17 AM
#16
verktyg
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The seller told me that these Sugino cranks are mounted on a Swiss bottom bracket. If I want to put Sugino 75s on it do I need to swap out the bottom bracket for another one? Either a 68mm Sugino 75 BB or an ISO one?
I have a line on the cranks and a Campagnolo Chorus bracket. Maybe I am overthinking this and should just replace the chainring and keep the stock look on it.
I have a line on the cranks and a Campagnolo Chorus bracket. Maybe I am overthinking this and should just replace the chainring and keep the stock look on it.
There's a number of Bottom Bracket thread standards:
ISO Right Hand Thread Adjustable Cup Left Hand Thread Fixed Cup (Current World Standard)
1.375" x 24 TPI (Threads Per Inch)
(34.9 x 1.06 mm)
British Right Hand Thread Adjustable Cup Left Hand Thread Fixed Cup
1.370” x 24 TPI
(34.8 x 1.06 mm)
ITALIAN Right Hand Thread Adjustable Cup Right Hand Thread Fixed Cup
36 mm X 24 TPI
(1.417" x 1.06 mm)
FRENCH Right Hand Thread Adjustable Cup Right Hand Thread Fixed Cup (French, Spanish and others)
35 mm X 1mm
(1.378” x 25.4 TPI)
SWISS Right Hand Thread Adjustable Cup Left Hand Thread Fixed Cup
35 mm X 1mm
(1.378” x 25.4 TPI)
RALEIGH Right Hand Thread Adjustable Cup Left Hand Thread Fixed Cup (Obsolete)
1 3/8” x 26 TPI (1.375" x 26 TPI)
(34.9 x .977mm)
ISO and British BBs are interchangeable. They have become the world standard.
French and Swiss have the same size threads but Swiss BBs have Left Hand threaded Fixed Cups on the Right Side (Drive Side).
Bikes with Metric or Swiss Metric threaded BBs haven't been produced since the mid 1980's - ~35 years.
Your choices are going to be limited so you may have to make some compromises.
Here's a link to Sheldon Brown's web page on BBs:
Sheldon Brown's Bottom Bracket Size Database
I put together this Flickr Album on setting up a SS/Fixed French Thread BB. Read the explanations under the pictures:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/282672...7627678462359/
verktyg
Chas.
__________________
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
10-23-16, 04:31 PM
#17
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Thanks. I read that over at Sheldon and saw your flickr page. Very helpful, but still confused.
In the mean time, I got more info on these bikes being special models from someone else. He said:
I can back this story up. I knew about these bikes at the time. The original deal was a cycling tour in Finland with a bike included. So the airline might have been Finnair. Ridgewood Cycle had a vast basement and bought up the surplus bikes. The ones I have seen were orange in color and all 22". Frame and paint to the usual Mondia standards but for the plain steel dropouts. Sugino Mighty Cranks and Suntour derailleurs. Wienmann brakes, clincher tires. The Sugino Mighty BB was Swiss thread, which is very uncommon. I hunted one down in Ridgewood about 2000 and bought it. The shop sort of remembered them then. Probably one of the better oddball cycling values ever. Like a Mirella.
NO/MAYBE and YES/MAYBE....
There's a number of Bottom Bracket thread standards:
ISO Right Hand Thread Adjustable Cup Left Hand Thread Fixed Cup (Current World Standard)
1.375" x 24 TPI (Threads Per Inch)
(34.9 x 1.06 mm)
British Right Hand Thread Adjustable Cup Left Hand Thread Fixed Cup
1.370” x 24 TPI
(34.8 x 1.06 mm)
ITALIAN Right Hand Thread Adjustable Cup Right Hand Thread Fixed Cup
36 mm X 24 TPI
(1.417" x 1.06 mm)
FRENCH Right Hand Thread Adjustable Cup Right Hand Thread Fixed Cup (French, Spanish and others)
35 mm X 1mm
(1.378” x 25.4 TPI)
SWISS Right Hand Thread Adjustable Cup Left Hand Thread Fixed Cup
35 mm X 1mm
(1.378” x 25.4 TPI)
RALEIGH Right Hand Thread Adjustable Cup Left Hand Thread Fixed Cup (Obsolete)
1 3/8” x 26 TPI (1.375" x 26 TPI)
(34.9 x .977mm)
ISO and British BBs are interchangeable. They have become the world standard.
French and Swiss have the same size threads but Swiss BBs have Left Hand threaded Fixed Cups on the Right Side (Drive Side).
Bikes with Metric or Swiss Metric threaded BBs haven't been produced since the mid 1980's - ~35 years.
Your choices are going to be limited so you may have to make some compromises.
Here's a link to Sheldon Brown's web page on BBs:
Sheldon Brown's Bottom Bracket Size Database
I put together this Flickr Album on setting up a SS/Fixed French Thread BB. Read the explanations under the pictures:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/282672...7627678462359/
verktyg
Chas.
In the mean time, I got more info on these bikes being special models from someone else. He said:
I can back this story up. I knew about these bikes at the time. The original deal was a cycling tour in Finland with a bike included. So the airline might have been Finnair. Ridgewood Cycle had a vast basement and bought up the surplus bikes. The ones I have seen were orange in color and all 22". Frame and paint to the usual Mondia standards but for the plain steel dropouts. Sugino Mighty Cranks and Suntour derailleurs. Wienmann brakes, clincher tires. The Sugino Mighty BB was Swiss thread, which is very uncommon. I hunted one down in Ridgewood about 2000 and bought it. The shop sort of remembered them then. Probably one of the better oddball cycling values ever. Like a Mirella.
NO/MAYBE and YES/MAYBE....
There's a number of Bottom Bracket thread standards:
ISO Right Hand Thread Adjustable Cup Left Hand Thread Fixed Cup (Current World Standard)
1.375" x 24 TPI (Threads Per Inch)
(34.9 x 1.06 mm)
British Right Hand Thread Adjustable Cup Left Hand Thread Fixed Cup
1.370” x 24 TPI
(34.8 x 1.06 mm)
ITALIAN Right Hand Thread Adjustable Cup Right Hand Thread Fixed Cup
36 mm X 24 TPI
(1.417" x 1.06 mm)
FRENCH Right Hand Thread Adjustable Cup Right Hand Thread Fixed Cup (French, Spanish and others)
35 mm X 1mm
(1.378” x 25.4 TPI)
SWISS Right Hand Thread Adjustable Cup Left Hand Thread Fixed Cup
35 mm X 1mm
(1.378” x 25.4 TPI)
RALEIGH Right Hand Thread Adjustable Cup Left Hand Thread Fixed Cup (Obsolete)
1 3/8” x 26 TPI (1.375" x 26 TPI)
(34.9 x .977mm)
ISO and British BBs are interchangeable. They have become the world standard.
French and Swiss have the same size threads but Swiss BBs have Left Hand threaded Fixed Cups on the Right Side (Drive Side).
Bikes with Metric or Swiss Metric threaded BBs haven't been produced since the mid 1980's - ~35 years.
Your choices are going to be limited so you may have to make some compromises.
Here's a link to Sheldon Brown's web page on BBs:
Sheldon Brown's Bottom Bracket Size Database
I put together this Flickr Album on setting up a SS/Fixed French Thread BB. Read the explanations under the pictures:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/282672...7627678462359/
verktyg
Chas.
10-30-16, 01:31 PM
#18
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I took possession of the bike yesterday. Peeled all off all but the original stickers, cleaned it up a little, lubed the chain, and put air in the tires before I took it out for a log spin. What a nice ride! Perfect balance of stiffness and flexibility. The bike handled so well. I am one happy customer, except I'm not too crazy about the gold colored paint LOL.
I'm going to change out some things on the bike. I already put my B17 on it for now but the honey color does not go well with the gold. I'm going to put a center-pull brake on it - either a Dia Compe Gran Compe 610 or a Mafac Racer (I have spares of both). I'm also going to replace the wheelset for something with polished silver hubs and rims... I am eyeing a H Plus Son set laced to Formula Hubs. I was looking at purchasing them for another build so I will swap them with this wheelset.
I might look at a new paint job as well. This bike is rare but given Mondia's short life it is not a collector's item and the paint is not in the greatest shape. We'll see.
I'm going to change out some things on the bike. I already put my B17 on it for now but the honey color does not go well with the gold. I'm going to put a center-pull brake on it - either a Dia Compe Gran Compe 610 or a Mafac Racer (I have spares of both). I'm also going to replace the wheelset for something with polished silver hubs and rims... I am eyeing a H Plus Son set laced to Formula Hubs. I was looking at purchasing them for another build so I will swap them with this wheelset.
I might look at a new paint job as well. This bike is rare but given Mondia's short life it is not a collector's item and the paint is not in the greatest shape. We'll see.
11-07-16, 12:58 PM
#19
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Just wanted to report back on this sweet, sweet bike. I cleaned it up a little, swapped out the wheels for some Velocity Aeroheads laced to Suzue Pro Max High Flange hubs and Pasela Panaracers. I replaced the chainring with a Sugino 46T and a new 17T lockring. New Slyvan MKS pedals. And obviously I removed the non-stock stickers, the grips, and added my B17 to it. This bike is so responsive and the wheelset is light yet stiff. Even running 25s on the streets it is fine. It is a real pleasure to ride and although I wasnt crazy about the gold paintjob at first it is really growing on me.
Next step is to replace the brake with a Dia Compe Gran Compe 610 center-pull but I need to get a new headset with a smaller stack height. And either grips or tape.
Next step is to replace the brake with a Dia Compe Gran Compe 610 center-pull but I need to get a new headset with a smaller stack height. And either grips or tape.
