WolfRyder

Man I like this Motobecane Le Champion and it looks quite clean, is good fit also, but that potential damage under the kick stand clamp is bothering me. So pretty much all these mounts leave a crushed chainstay?

FBOATSB

If it has been over tightened, yes. Otherwise probably not.

I would take it off and check before I passed that up.

9volt 

That fork looks like it was painted

Seizedpost

It's probably a little squished on the bottom of the nds chainstay, but it should only be a cosmetic issue.
I think a clamp-on kickstand on lightweight thin-walled steel is a bad idea, it's too bad there aren't more quality bikes with kickstand plates.

WolfRyder

Hmmf, fork paint does look a little off doesn't it. Hard to say from this pic. I'll need to see this bike in person, but It is a bit of a trip, so might just throw out a number with potencial condition issues.

Andrew R Stewart 

Having seen, perhaps, hundreds of bikes with dented chain stays from k stands I say don't worry.


The big issue with most K stands is the pendulum swing of the arm. It has so much interia that it tries to rotate the stay clamp. So the solution is to either build up the stays to support the higher clamping pressures needed to hold against the awing. Or to add a plate with side of k stand body support. Or do what I show here... Andy

Loose Chain

That is why I remove all kick stands from my bicycles and will not purchase one except for parts if it is crushed. It ruins the value to me unless it is exceedingly minor.

WolfRyder

Nice work on bottom of that chainstay. Thing is I don't care for a kickstand on a vintage steel bike in general, especially a top model mens racer. So my concern is the potencial crushing chainstay damage. Bf member RandyJawa on his 10 speed Site says damage is often likely. So I like the bike got a shot at it with upcoming apt, but am thinking the kickstand could be a deal breaker. I would have to see it removed and inspect before buying.

Andrew R Stewart 

The cool thing about my use of studs (actually 10p nails) to hold the k stand body is that I positioned then a tad narrower then the body. So I was able to make shallow half round file "troughs" in the sides of the body and rotationally locate the k stand nearly perfectly (so that the arm is parallel to the stay).


But this is on my around the neighborhood bike, not any "real' road bike of mine. I agree with the avoidance of k stands in general. Andy.

randyjawa 

How any times have I seen damage due to these stupid side or even center stands that clamp on to the stays. You can get away with it on bikes with thick tubing, sort of, but forget about it on exotic tubes. Damage is bound to occur every time and the damage gets worse, the longer the stand is installed/used. I just threw one away on Wednesday past.

verktyg 

1. Big problem with kick stands, it was easy for a bike to fall over... Someone bumped the bike or the wind or what ever. We took them off of most of the new bikes that came with them and discouraged buyers from having them installed.

2. Reynolds 531 was so strong that it would take a lot more than a little bit of denting on the top and bottom of the chain stays to create a problem... Besides, most of the stresses on chain stays come from lateral side to side forces.

3. The bike is a late 1973 model Le Champion. They came in all silver. The forks may have been painted because the chrome was rusted?

There weren't many of these late 1973 LCs made. All of the ones I've seen were large sizes. They were very different from the 1974-76 Le Champions which shared the same frames as the Team Champion/Champion Team bikes from those years.

The first pictures below show details of a late 1973 frame followed by 1974-76 Le Champion frame details.

The big differences were the standard out of the box Campy 1010 dropouts and forkends with fender eyelets plus flat top Vagner fork crowns with chevrons on the 1973 frames. Also factory domed ends on the fork blades and rear stays.

The 1974-76 frames had filed down dropouts and forkends without eyelets, Fischer semisloping chrome plated crowns. Also the fork blades and rear stays were angle cut.

Both styles should ride and handle about the same.

verktyg

Chas.

Grand Bois

My shopping bike with a large front basket required a two-legged stand. I prevented crushing of the 531 fast taper stays by inserting tight-fitting corks and then packing with an epoxy metal putty. It works!



It's a '73 Raleigh Competition with a 5 speed SA hub.

uncle uncle

You can hate kickstands, but they have purpose and a place. A bicycle precariously leaning against a tree, if it tips over, also has a potential to damage the tubing. From a design point of view, more manufacturers should have made designs that anticipated it's customers needs (including kickstands). The inability to accept a kickstand on bicycles that in all likelihood could use one, is/was a design flaw. I know its a bicycling pureblood thing to loathe kickstands, but it's just one of those things that bewilders the other 95%.

Salamandrine 

Kickstands have their place -- on a utility/city bike, not on a 531 race bike. I would be suspicious of this bike if only because of the owner's lack of respect. I would not purchase before seeing, unless the price is silly cheap.

WolfRyder

Precisely...Yeah it is not silly cheap either, but seemed pretty fair without kick stand issue. I would say that could knock down value a couple hundred. I don't want a bike with a crushed chainstay and it is a bit of a trip. Not to mention I am between cars and would have to get a rental. So would of course always rather bring cash and negotiate in person. However in this case with high likelihood of condition issue, distance and logistics, he's going to hate me, but am going to throw out a low number via e-mail or phone.

WolfRyder

Thanks Verktg for all that Motobecane info. Yeah have never had a French bike and want to pick one up. Like the one I have a line on. I didn't think it was that old. I was thinking late 70's. I thought it had Campy side pull brakes not center pulls (which can mean early 70's) but need more pics.

Well see what happens. Still interested but He was saying As IS with kickstand and I told him, I need the stand off and to have a look at Chainstays then make offer. Or will come in low As is.

clubman 

The fork repaint raises flags as well. Run your fingers along the bottom of both top and down tube. It may have been straightened, prompting a further discount. Ride it of course.

exmechanic89

Death to kickstands!

As others have mentioned, I would definitely check that fork out. I'm always suspicious of repaints or fork replacements.

WolfRyder

Yeah not sure if it is repaint. For the most part it looks pretty original with light use. Need more pics...had them but ad is down. Seller doesn't seem to be a bike person but is "no low ballers" and "As is" so who knows whats going to happen. I'm thinking not a fork repaint, just lighting or is dirtier than rest of bike.

WolfRyder

Yeah lots of images out there of from chipped to crushed chainstays from Kickstands, so have to see it at least with it off.

Jeff Wills

I have kickstands on several bikes. It's kind of fun to come to a rest stop on a long ride and park the bike wherever I want while everyone else is searching for a nice spot to lay their bikes down without scratching them.

Of course, it's an Easy Racer recumbent so it doesn't really count.

clubman 

It's wonderful to be an optimist and I don't want to rain on the parade but any poll survey on this list will say that one's been repainted and the data is accurate 19 times out of 20. The light is the same as on the head tube and there's no visual match. Ever try to spread dirt evenly? As for Mr as-is/no low balls, you're right, he's no bike guy cuz then he'd own up to the possible issues. You said it's not cheap so add it all up.

Still, you like it, your money, your risk. I think it's not rare enough to take chances and accept damage.

Some kickstands are cool, that's not one of them.

WolfRyder

Yeah fair enough, not sure if am too keen on this one anymore.

verktyg 

The concerns posted by other members about the forks being non-original or repainted are valid. The undersides of the top and down tubes should be checked for any signs of ripples indicating the bike had been in a front end collision that bent the frame and fork.

That said, Motobecane produced a slew of undocumented models, changes, modification and so on plus the made different models for specific world markets: France, the US, the UK, the Netherlands, Germany, the East Bloc and so on.

It's quite possible that the bike came with a painted fork. 1973 was the peak of the bike boom in the US plus there were smaller booms in France and the UK.

Bike manufactures where pushing bikes out the door as fast as they could box them up so there were a lot of variations. "les spécifications sont sujettes à modification sans préavis" Specifications subject to change without notice!

As I mentioned above, the only pictures of 1973? Le Champion bikes like the one in question were in large sizes. The smallest and largest frame sizes were the slowest selling bikes. 54cm to 60cm (21 1/2" to 23 1/2") were the most popular sizes. Motobecane may have had an order for that bike but no finished chrome plate fork so they used one that to fit that frame and painted it.

That said, not being able to check out the bike before purchase with the kind of restrictions the seller mentioned would be a deal breaker for me.

If the price was SO GOOD then I might take a chance and gamble on it.

One last question... Is the frame the correct size for you? No matter how good the deal is, if the bike is too big or too small then it's not worth it.

Many sellers don't know how to measure bikes sizes! The safest bet is to have them measure the distance the top tube is off the ground. Add an inch or so and that's the "stand-over height".

verktyg

Chas.