I suspect that it might be controversial because so many riders are locked into the notion that there's only one way to ride. So like so many things that get polarized these days, it's either high cadence or mashing big gears, but not both or anything in between.

I'm like you guys, maybe because I rode fixed in rolling terrain and had to develop 10 speed legs.

+1. I switch back and forth between toe clips and clipless pedals all the time depending on the bike I am riding. Just practice with toe clips tightening and loosening the strap. It is really fairly simple.

If you aim to optimize efficiency, you will miss. Using the best muscles for the job will fatigue them. Take advantage of a few inefficient ways of pedaling such as pulling up on the pedals or standing up. Reducing fatigue can be as valuable as using your best muscles to the exclusion of the others.

The hams (I don't know anatomical terms - I mean the muscles on the underside of your thighs) have to be the biggest muscles in your legs. I figure there must be a way to make them pull their weight even more than they already do.

I used to practice using just the "pull up" stroke. When I was good at that, then I'd practice simultaneously "pushing down" with one leg while "pulling up" with the other leg. Done right, it is like switching on a turbocharger. Admittedly I seem to lose that coordination if I don't practice it, and using all those muscles at once does send my heart rate into the red pretty quick. But for a short seated effort, it's the way to go.

Context: riding up hills on bikes with gearing like 52/42 x 12-26, where spinning isn't really an option.

Nowhere close.

We can divide leg and arm muscles into two groups. The flexors and the tensors. Flexors are the ons that bend a joint, and tensors work in the opposite direction to straighten it.

The relative development of these two groups depends on the function and development of the limbs involved.

For example, the flexors of the fingers and arm are stronger reflecting the function of hands for gripping and arms for lifting. In the main leg muscles, the primary need is to keep the legs straight and support our bodies, so the tensors of the knee joint are much more developed than the flexors, whose normal function is to lift the lower leg as we walk.

As such, the amount of force we can generate pushing pedals dwarfs what we can produce pulling.

That's simple evolutionary biology, and if it weren't the case, bicycles would have long ago been designed with the feet positioned under the pedals so we rode by pulling vs pushing.

This isn't to say that you can't produce some added power by pulling up on the backstroke, but this like the afterburner of a jet, something to be used for the short term when a peak power boost is needed.

Fair enough. However, we always read that just a few percent more watts makes a big difference in cycling. I figure that even without specific training, most of us can "pull" at least 20% of what we can "push". Like, go to the gym, if you can leg press 200 lb with one leg, then see what you can lift (put straps on some weights and loop around foot), probably can lift 40 lb.

Combine the two and it's a big boost.

+1 Also - efficiency doesn't win races, at least not mass start races. It is really important, but having and using lots of power at the appropriate time, often at horrible efficiencies is what wins races. A racer trains himself to ride for hours preserving his ability to put out large amounts of power at the right time. He might well be burningmore watts doing it than Mr Efficiency. But when the big push happens in the late miles (or up the big hill), the rider who spared his precious quads burning more energy pulling up may well have a lot more "in the tank" when it comes to usable muscle fiber. For the same , that same racer may well be riding at an RPM faster than most efficient. Hi is preserving the muscle fiber for that big jump or the very fast final miles.

Even if you are not racing, there are still hills in a lot of places. Expending more power on hills and riding less efficiently but effectively going easy on the primary muscles to preserve that ability the rest of the time is for the most part, either faster or easier. (Hills being significantly slower and therefore where you spend a lot of time. Small changes in power and speed on hills makes a bigger difference than on the flat, both in total trip time and how long you have to spend on the hills.

Ben

You know, that's close enough for a beer bet. In fact, I'll bet 3 beers. I don't belong to a gym, so if you do, I'll accept your word on whether you could lift the 40#s with one foot. (vertical lift, not a knee flex machine). Otherwise, we'll have to find an acceptable volunteer.

In any case, I agree that there's some benefit in pulling up, and do it myself on hard climbs (especially when riding fixed up a wall), but it's only a short term situational thing, because those muscles aren't conditioned prolonged effort.

Back to the OP. It's obviously possible to ride with toe clips and normal shoes, or stiff shanked shoes with no cleats. I commuted for years in SF with street shoes and toe clips. It does take a different stroke. You can pull up a little bit, but it strains your shins, and you can't pedal all the way around. I find it serviceable but much less efficient than the full system of cleats, clips and straps. Also less comfortable on long rides.

Those are meant to be used on the lower two screws of a 3 bolt system.

There really don't seem to be any cheap solutions to this issue. Either buy 3 bolt cycling shoes with laces (or otherwise unencumbered forefoot area), or buy rather expensive neo retro shoes, or hope you get lucky on ebay with some non midget sized vintage shoes.

In retrospect I wish I would have held on to a pair of my slotted cleat shoes. I don't even remember what I did with them. It's possible I gleefully tossed them out.

I'm pretty sure you can still buy them. I have no desire for them. I gave a pair away a year or two ago. I'm very comfortable in clipless cleats. I had Look when they were fairly new, and then I switched to SPD. I have SPD-SL pedals on my track bike, and they're OK for me, too. I remember being nervous with slotted cleats. When the straps were tight, I felt too tied in, and when they were loose, the experience wasn't much better than uncleated shoes. Clipless cleats allow me to stay in when I want to and get out when I want to, and neither happens without my wanting to.

My own approach to using toe clips, which I only use rarely nowadays, is to use regular old street shoes and not insist on the ability to pull back with the pedals level. Others are fine with cinching down, so "different strokes" really applies here. Either way, [MENTION=63590]jyl[/MENTION] will get used to one of these with only a little practice. You can't really forget. It's like riding a bike. Oops, it is riding a bike.

Try These: No need for straps or clips

VO Deep Half Clips



Size 14 shoe

They work Great

Thumbs up from 10wheels is good enough for me. Plus, I feel better about my size 13's getting in there.

Not Eroica but something to consider.

I ride using a variety of foot retention from half and full toe clips to clipless, road and SPD / atb. After reading this thread, it made me think of what I rode today.

Believe to have acquired these pedals and plastic clips around 1991 and still working great. Back then were used for off-road but now less often on a folding bike.

I don't like the thought of plastic but really nothing is wrong with them or to critic. They're the only plastic versions I have. As for the straps (called Super Straps), they hold shape unlike leather type. Not affected by wet or cold temps and no clasp corrosion. The ratchet system is brilliant offering precise tensioning. The release is a quick flick and allows the strap to open very wide. In my experience, the best of strap designs.

[IMG]suntour xc pro ATB by carrera247, on Flickr[/IMG]

[MENTION=350383]crank_addict[/MENTION] - points for using the SunTour grease guard pedals! I've got them on a couple of bikes, and they are just about the highest quality, or best engineered, non-clipless* pedal that I've seen!


Steve in Peoria

* "non-clipless" sounds wrong, but so does "clipped".

^Steve,
They really are terrific pedals. The bottom side are pegged to aid in sole grip but defeats that purpose when toeclips are used.

Now thinking of pulling these pedals off that bike, only because I'm sentimental to them and probably worth more to me if the bike was stolen. Owner of a LBS mentioned of a possible vintage ATB event next Summer in WI and if so, I would use these pedals.