My experience with Dia Compe 400s was that I could pull my lever all the way to the bar and not lock up either wheel, despite having them adjusted quite close to the rim. They are junk brakes.

I have 105 SLRs on my Paramount. I frequently lock up the back wheel by accident. I'd love to have them on all my road bikes.

Someone might say the same about my Weinmann CP, but with Kool Stop Dura cartridge pads, they will lock up both wheels.

I'm glad that you like those brakes, but they're not relevant to the OP's situation. He needs medium or long reach brakes, and the BR-6800s are short reach.

They aren't great brakes, but even so you should be able to get them to work better than that. I'd suspect old dried out pads and/or steel rims. Almost any vintage rubber pad is going to be useless by now. Other possible issues: thin cheap brake cables, too much housing, cheap flexy housing, short reach levers.

I will back you up on that completely.

That being so, as a subjective matter, 90% of people will feel that less finger pressure with more braking power equals more powerful brakes. They aren't going to care about the theory or more mechanical advantage. Also, brake pad quality and cable and housing quality have on average improved substantially in the last 3 decades or so. That is part of why modern brakes feel stronger.

I've ridden Weinmann CP brakes as well, and found that they functioned very well compared to the Dia Compe brakes. In fact I liked them so much that I decided to go centerpull rather than side pull for my restomod project.

No, this was with Kool Stop Salmon pads, the original Ukai alloy rims, new housing and cables, and both the original Dia Compe levers and Tektro RL341 aero levers. They just flex way too much. I'd call their performance passable on level ground when it's dry out, but add any sort of negative grade or water and they were downright dangerous. Maybe you had higher-end Dia Compe brakes, but the 400 sidepulls that are ubiquitous to vintage Japanese bikes were simply not good. I'm also quite heavy at 220 lbs, so a brake that might seem good to someone who is lighter is not going to work well for me.

Sorry but no. Dura Ace cable kits are one of the worst purchases you can make IMO. It's very nice cables/housing but makes practically no discernable difference, and the jump in price from the basic Shimano cable kits is huge. As long as the routing is is set up correctly and housing ends are opened and filed, performance from cheaper cable kits will be roughly the same. I would never advise anyone at my shop to buy these kits unless they are high-Cat racers. Even then it's unnecessary.

Sounds like you did what you could with them then. BTW, I've never had them myself. I was a mechanic in the 80s and have assembled countless bikes with those brakes. I don't disagree, they flex and are not good brakes. Still, they might be tweakable to be a bit better. Are you using braided housing and THICK brake cables? Thin generic cables are terrible. Well fitted ferrules and filed housing ends also make a difference.

At any rate at 220 they are not a good choice for you regardless. I'm 180ish and I wouldn't ride them.

I've been enjoying my Gran Compe 610 brakes with Kool Stop dura pads. So +1 to Bulldog's comments. They are pretty much a reissue of the beefier 60s Weinmanns. Calipers are nice and stiff and the end result is centerpull braking power, with fine control similar to Campy Record brakes. I was thinking of making custom cross cables to boost MA to modern levels, but for now they work well enough and I like having the option of not running pads super close to the rims.

The real improvement in braking power with dual pivots is due to increased mechanical advantage. The downside is that you have to ride the pads closer to the rims.

You could make single pivots with more mechanical advantage, by having longer arms on the calipers, but since single pivots don't self-align, it would be a pain to keep one pad or the other from rubbing the rims.

Bottom line: dual pivots simply have more stopping power. Folks here nattered about brake pads and cables etc., but in the end, dual pivots are just better.

Best single pivot brake ever: Dura-Ace 7402. Best dual pivot brake ever: Dura-Ace 7403. In terms of stopping power: not even close.

Worst brakes I've ever had: Dia-Compe Alpha 5000. Despite making multiple changes to the levers, brake pads and cable housings, these were hopeless at stopping. Flexy, weak, poor mechanical advantage, and cheap hardware. And these were better than most of the Dia-Compe brakes out there...

By measuring from the center of the mounting bolt to the middle of the brake track ('84 Univega Viva Sport w/27" wheels) on each of the front and back wheels - just in case they were different - I came up with 49-50mm. What is funny is that the front has a recessed mount, and the rear is nutted. Go figure.

When I had the frame of my 912 updated by spreading the rear dropouts to 130mm, I had the fork drilled for recessed, but it would have been much harder to also modify the rear brake bridge for recessed brakes. Yours sounds similar.

And I love the Shimano medium reach dual pivots with Kool Stop salmon pads on this bike. They work by swapping front and rear calipers, with a long brake mounting nut in the fork, as I recall.

Tim_Iowa,

He said he is still running 27 inch wheels on that Univega and did not convert to 700c. Short-reach may work...or they may not. Ultegra's worked on my old 1986 Raleigh and so do the Tektro's. A shop will be able to tell him for sure. If he had converted to 700c wheels then yes, he'd need long reach for sure or a caliper dropper bolt.

TenGrainBread,

Opinions are great! I really like the (quote) Dura Ace cables (even though they aren't labelled as such). I can tell a difference on each of my bikes after I installed those cables. Now, are they worth an extra $15 bucks? That's a personal decision. There is no doubt they are very fine cables. Are they substantially better than standard "old fashioned" non-coated cables? Yes. Are they substantially better than the new generation coated cables? Probably not "substantial", but they do provide a crisper brake feel from my experience running those and standard on the same bikes.

IDK what you want, I'll let you figure that Out..

I Put 52 reach old <C> side pulls on my RB1, It's the longer reach of theirs, at that time ..

If reach for 27" wheels is 49-50 mm, then it'll be 53-54 mm on 700c wheels. Tektro R539 and R737 brakes will reach either of those.

Miche Performance brakes are another option. They're rebadged Tektro R737's and can be found pretty cheap from some of the UK vendors. They're currently $34.86/pair from Wiggle.

Yup, that's the exact same brake/pad combo I used for my Fuji restomod project. I do use aero levers for the ~10% increased MA they're supposed to offer, but I really like them. They require substantially more hand strength than my Tektro R539 dual pivots did, but they also have wonderful modulation, maximize fender clearance, and just look classy af.

I haven't really used a dual pivot I found inadequate. Personally, I like the modern campy approach of dual pivot front and single pivot rear. It gives you the best of both worlds in terms of stopping power/modulation, and a dual pivot front is MORE than ample to stop anything.

With my '86 Trek 400 Elance, my intent was to upgrade the brakes to 6400 dual pivots- I was kind of surprised that they didn't reach... I learned a lesson about brake reach... Because I REALLY wanted to use these brakes- I changed from 700c TO 27" That gave me enough to use the short reach brakes. When I realized I'd need two long bolts (two front brakes) I came across a set of single pivot 6400 brakes- and put them on the back. I thought it was nifty- I didn't know about the whole Campagnolo thing... just nifty...

fify

A previous owner of my '84 Pinarello Gran Turismo did that. The frame was designed for 700c wheels, but it had 27" wheels with short reach SunTour Superbe brakes when I got it. I had to deflate the rear tire completely to get the wheel out but the brakes reached.

And that's an entirely reasonable use of terminology. The ratio of braking force to hand force is much more useful information that maximum braking force. I put this in the same category as complaining about people giving a weight in kilograms.

You're right those R559's are popular. Lots of people use them for the 700C to 650B swap also. They also work great for fenders and side pull brake equipped bikes [MENTION=442798]bulldog1935[/MENTION] thanks for sharing

+1 for the Dura Ace cable sets, very nice, smooth feel, their quality, and longevity, are better than the lower level Shimano, or generic cable sets. I had issues with a Jagwire Pro Road set and the quality control exhibited, steered me away from using that brand any more. A little time spent shopping turned up better buys fairly easily.

The Dura Ace aren't much more expensive than the standard Ultegra sets, only thing I found was less colors for the housings in Dura Ace, and I use the gray housings anyhow. I could tell a difference in the feel and ease of pull with these cables and housings. YMMV

Bill