Hondo20

Hey guys.
Old school bmx collector here. Road bikes are not my expertise.
I know for certain that decals only matter if if everything underneath is correct. ( the decals are single color that's a ???)

I'm not looking to sell at this time. Don't ask or pm with an offer. I really just want to identify this frame & fork. Whatever it may be..

What I know. I've got my old Motobecane
Mirage from high school. This bike is much lighter... using the house scale 23 lbs with everything. ( not exact for you perfectionists.)

It's got the campy drop outs front & back.
Back has the 2 holes for the chain rest from my research. The lugs are not drilled. I took measurements with a plastic slide tool the seat post is 26-27mm. The bottom bracket is 67-68 mm.( again not exact) I have no idea about threading. If you can explain threading. I'm up for a lesson.

The seat clamp or seat stay is not the typical. Yet I have seen this type on the real bikes. The fork crown has me guessing. It looks close to some but I'm not an expert.

Components are a mixed bag. Campy shifters benotto headset set & rear hub. Sugino brakes & cranks. Vx derailleur.

I will post as many pics as I can to help.

In all honesty I'm hoping it's real but being realistic. Old cinelli are really uncommon.

Hondo20

Just picked this up. Not wanting to sell. Just want to know if it's real. I'm a BMX guy so I know decals are always the way to tell.

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Thanks guys

RobbieTunes

Putting it mildly, I don't think so. It's not like any I've ever seen. The head tube lugs should have a little flying C stamped into them somewhere.

unworthy1

Uh, no. Those are some weird "Cinelli" homebrew or re-pop decals.
Maybe a few more details and somebody might be able to ID it...what's the brand on the headset for example: Benotto?
The dropouts look to have portacatena holes placing this in the 1978-80-ish timeframe.
and was intended for nutted brakes both F&R it looks...has it got a 27.2 seatpost and "rifling" in the steerer inside base?

cyclotoine

You'll need to confirm threading, seatpost diameter (should be stamped on the post, I expect 27.2 for that size with campy drop outs), close ups for all the lugs any number stampings.

If the BB is 68mm it points to english threading and for a machine with the porta catena drop outs that does not point to italy.

I'm not a cinelli expert so I won't comment other than the fork crown does not jive with what I have seen typically. If you provide the close ups and details we'll definitely help you drill down and try to get an ID of what it is, though I suspect it is not a cinelli, it looks like a really nice bike.

repechage

As noted, not a Cinelli. Cinelli and Colnago seem to be the most desired and "upbranded" bikes.
That out of the way, it may be a decent bike.
The bottom bracket cups should have (most likely, crank arms appear Shimano) the thread spec stamped into them,
Off drive side should be visible if you wipe off any crud, based on your report of the shell width, I would expect 1.370 x 24, English threading and not Italian which is 36 x 24., French is 35 x 1 and also 68mm wide.

CliffordK

Don't most Cinelli frames have a fastback seat cluster, although not necessarily universal on all of them.

Unlike Colnago, I think Cinelli may have sold lugs, so there may be some confusion.

Is this the bottom bracket?



Not particularly Cinelli-like either.

On the other hand, if those are Campy dropouts, that isn't a bad sign.

Bikerider007

This is a great help for identifying and changes. Velo-Retro: Cinelli Timeline


Unless this is somewhat newer and lower model I don't see it.

Hondo20

Hondo20

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zukahn1 

I would say also not likely a Cinelli but looks to be a high end Italian frame, with a bunch of random just OK Japanese components. Campy dropouts nicely pointed thinned lugs, nicely done cutout on BB, diamond braces on seat stays. As to why it's not a Cinelli no markings panographs and no Cinelli components, pretty much all the genuine ones I have seen had markings panos and some Cinelli components usually paired with Campy to round out the bike. One thing you could check to confirm is pull the fork based on the level of bike it likely has some makers markings, tubing markings and maybe even serial number on the steering tube.

Hondo20

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Hondo20

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Honestly I know it's a good frame. I just want to know what it is...

CliffordK

I hate those "Mystery Bikes". A few more details might be nice. But, a Colnago Sport might be within the realm of possibilities.

Hmmm... are the lugs too short?

Hondo20

I do believe it had better components at one time.
The campy shifters may be OG or they came off the Bennoto.
The weirdest thing to me is the front hub it's a Suzue. That's BMX stuff to me not road group stuff. The rims are sew ups was glad to know the spoke nipples weren't locked up.



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sloar 

I saw that "Cinelli" on the auction listing. I had my doubts when it was posted.

JohnDThompson 

Nice frame, but not likely to be a Cinelli. Too many discrepant details.

unworthy1

hardly ever seen a Benotto-branded headset on anything but i suspect that may be the best clue to this bike's origin...although it doesn't look particularly "benotto" either.
We'd need to know the BB shell threading (maybe the BB unit has it stamped/engraved) and an EXACT seatpost measurement (likely stamped on the shaft) plus some other details, but pretty likely it's Italian (or a Mexican-made Benotto), Columbus tubing (probably SL) made between 1978 and very early 1980s.

Hondo20

Please pardon it took so long to get posted I mistakenly double posted this topic. I did wait 3 or 5 hours before reposting. I'm on my phone. Sorry.

I have plastic micrometer. The seat tube reading was 26- 27ish mm & The bottom bracket is 68 ish.
I'm at the Fire Dept till Sunday morning so it will be a while till I can break the bike down. To look for threading #s , rifling or any identifiers in the bb or headtube.

I keep coming across Olmo BBs with simular cut outs. But it doesn't seem to fit in my mind that campy dropouts would be on an olmo. Aren't they the Italian versions of schwinns.

If a moderator wants to delete this or lump it all together I'm fine with that.

kroozer 

Does it look like it has been repainted? (Too-new and perfect paint on a vintage frame, different color paint underneath chips or on fork tube, etc.)
I have never had a Cinelli but from what I've seen they all had some pretty distinctive characteristics.
It might turn out that your frame is something more offbeat and interesting. Start looking really closely at all the details and you may be able to identify it.

CliffordK

Pull the seatpost and see if the size is printed on it (and make sure the ears don't look too squished).

The threading size is frequently printed on the bottom bracket (36x24 or 1.37x24).

cb400bill

Threads merged

unterhausen

Cinelli would have used some Cinelli parts, I would think. Did I miss any? However, that's not a good identification because they put their name all over their parts and they were some of the easiest framebuilding parts to get in the early days of investment cast parts. The crown looks like a stamped steel Japanese part to me.

Hondo20

It's got the cinelli bars & stem but from what I've read that was what they really made money selling, not frames.

johnnyace 

Is this the one that was on the shopgoodwill.com auction site? If so, I saw this one and considered it, but I had too many questions. Seems to be a decent frame, regardless.