And there is the answer to:

"How do I get the best performance for the tough accelerations and spirited climbing in a fast paceline, the lowest rolling resistance and a pleasant ride on rough TX roads?

The answer is simply to step back into the past with a touch of modern tech and fit a set of tubular wheels w/ high quality 25-28mm tubulars. :love:

If memory serves the first rolling resistance testing that BQ did the #1 tire tested was (my favorite back when) the Clement Campion Del Mondo Seta tubular.
With DA 9000 C-24 or C-35 AL/CF composite wheels ( I like my RS-81 C-24 clinchers) and whatever Vittoria or Continental is offering for pave' racing: Good to Go.

Super light, very fast, comfortable and installed on any of three bikes w/ the flip of a QR lever.
Once again a case of "Right church, wrong pew". :innocent:

Thanks [MENTION=424205]Salamandrine[/MENTION] for reminding me! :D

-Bandera

There's no denying that is one fine bike!

Bandera, I should have remembered earlier that Cannondale did make smaller framed bikes in 650C (my mind remembered them as 650B) and this may offer what you're searching for. A quick and dirty search showed that tires and rims are available, but perhaps not at the upper level you're seeking.

A nice link with some generic info: 650 versus 700c wheels - Are small wheels slow? 650 vs. 700c

Brad

PS With so much development of the tubular and clincher 700C bicycle rim, who knows if 650B will progress from the mountain bikers and those wishing to use larger tires on their 700C road frames.

Back to the original question, it would seem that the only way to get lightweight rims with wider tires in 650b is to go with carbon fiber rims - a 320 gram rim link was posted earlier. But then this would require disc brakes, no? I'm not sure if there is a 650b rim with a brake surface that's anywhere near 300 grams.

As for converting the 74 International, as some have suggested, the chainstays are on the short side to be able to run anything wider than, say 35mm. The '71 chainstays are significantly longer, and have room for 42's.

But this brings up another point. The geometry of a bike used to ride in a peloton, with the ability to react quickly typically means shorter chainstays - at least that's the commonality I keep hearing from the racing community. If you want shorter chainstays, then you'll have to dent them to get a fatter tire in, with significantly reduced stiffness. I've had a couple of older Motobecane Grand Records through my shop for conversions, they have relatively short chainstays, but are dented, and can just fit 42mm wide tires with a few mm of clearance.

Then there's the fender clearance issue - but that's where the randonneur-type ride and road racing-types diverge, I would think. In Portland, even the road racers put them on with skinny tires to keep their training up in the winter. In Texas, probably not a need.

Bicycle design is full of compromises. Fatter tubulars do seem like the solution if you prioritize weight but still want comfort. I have an old Raleigh Professional that I plan to build up in that manner for an Eroica ride next year. It'll be fun to try out tubulars again!

Might make economical sense too, even if splurging for top shelf tubulars. Why bother spending a high-end set of 650b wheels AND tires? Suggest whatever the widest handbuilt 700c tubulars you can fit from A. Dugast. Light weight and cooooshy!

I checked w/ a vendor selling CF 650B MTB clinchers: no brake track, disc use only. :mad:

The classic British club rider's frameset like the Internat'l was designed to fit mudguards and seatbag for the club weekend trip on rough country secondary roads and to strip off the mudguards, fit the light sprint (tubulars) and race a time trial the next weekend.

-Bandera

This thread=Desperate cry for attention.

I thought of a useful 650b application for me.
In the summer I regularly ride some of the forest service roads on my rigid mt bike. A long chainstay'd 650b roadie with fatties could do that job and likely be more comfortable than the high BB mtb.

Put that on the list behind the dyno-hub roadie, well lighted, with hammered fenders.

The Holdsworth Special (at least from the early 80s) is such a bike.

Hmmm, that would seem to be exactly what Jan's been preaching. A bunch of us C&Ver's rode something like that earlier this year.

Yeah, looks like you're out of luck with a 650b solution that meets all your needs.

Ah, remembering the usefulness of horizontal dropouts.

My favorite: Fixed Gear conversion of road racing bikes.

-Bandera

oh, that's because you're looking at pre-built production wheels , right?

As mentioned earlier in this train wreck of a thread you need to build you own wheelset to get what you want. The 650b wheelset as compared to THE SAME SPECED 700c wheelset will be smaller (weigh less), so then the only variables are tires/tubes or sealant/QR's. No one can tell you what to use there, but I suspect if you get a high quality 650b lightweight tires and run them tubeless the entire thing will weigh at the same ballpark as the 700c wheelset.

And even if it doesn't weigh substantially less, or weighs a little more, it won't matter since the payoff here is how much better it will ride over crappy surfaces. If you don't care about that part then you should stop being intrigued by 650b because it's probably not for you in the first place.

Wrong.

Did you miss this in Post #1?

Edit: See post #101 for a Much Better question, and it's Answer.

-Bandera

Ok great! In that case this proves that you either:

- don't know how to or are unwilling to perform simple math
- just want to be mean to people on your own thread.
- created this thread just to argue illogically with people.

Which ever one of those it is, best of luck, Jack.

I thought it was to showcase his project management skills; kind of a resume builder.

:)

Yeah, not much of value to be added.
I'll leaf with the old man.

To all who responded with actual factual information and useful suggestions: Thanks. :thumb:
Got what I needed to go down a different path for the same goals in a another project.

-Bandera

glad it worked. not being in the 650b market and dropping by late, this thread has ended like a dozen other threads I read on the forum today - final page of disdain over the thread itself and other posters on the thread, and completely off topic.

To add something constructive, that is a gorgeous bike.

Closed per OP's request.