Originally Posted by uncle uncle

I'm especially interested in the entry level, hi ten spec'ed product.

Originally Posted by mstateglfr

April 19th 1977

Originally Posted by Bandera

Not much interest in the opening price point "lightweight" machines of the late/post boom period in C&V ....

BTW:
"Feels dead". Really?
Not in my experience of rides of Japanese production vs. Euro/Brits we sold in similar price point machines from fairly basic to actual racing bikes.

Originally Posted by uncle uncle

I just got done reading about someone's experience with a 1977 Takara touring style bicycle, and even though it had a shiny lime green paint job, and good mid level Suntour parts... if felt "dead".

Originally Posted by Bandera

What "shiny" paint jobs or a particular flavor of components have to to w/ the "feel" of a frameset = Nothing.

Originally Posted by Classtime

In the 2010s, the 80s Japanese frames were/are,appreciated and valued beyond their retroactively perceived 1980s "Dominance". In the 70s, I only considered French, Italian, or English. So I would say 80s but it didn't happen till now.

Originally Posted by cbrstar

I've always wondered if "Insurance" had to do with Japan moving to Taiwan. I once read somewhere that in the US 1/3 of a US made bicycle retail cost was to cover the cost of corporate insurance. In the late 60's-70's bicycle companies were getting sued for astronomical amounts.

I can't help wonder if that's why so many US corporations moved to places like Taiwan & China, where it's extremely difficult for a foreigner to sue, and Japan followed suit?

Originally Posted by RobbieTunes

Half the price of a ladder, 1/2 the price of a can of soda, 1/4 the price of home construction. Victim mentality and those who generate it are huge drains on the productivity of a nation. It's a destructive parasitic situation that derives money from nothing, and creates huge burdens on true victims to "prove it," because they're lumped in with the rest who don't.

Originally Posted by T-Mar

For entry level product, the Japanese became dominant during the later years of the early 1970s bicycle boom. During the early years of the boom, the Eupropeans dominated. In my region, everybody wanted a Peugeot or Raleigh. As sales increased in the lighweight market, the Japanese moved in. Circa 1972, there was a real problem with the Europeans meeting demand and what they were producing was often sub-standard. If people wanted a "ten speed" they were being forced to look at the Japanese product and buyers quickly realized they were a good value. The newbies may not have been able to tell the difference between a lively and dead riding frame but they could tell the difference in finish. The Japanese typically had more lustrous paint and didn't suffer from the paint runs and brazing splatter often seen on low end, European product. Sometimes the consumer couldn't put their finger on the difference but the Japanese bicycle presented better to somebody looking for their first adult bicycle.

Once word got around that the Japanese produced a quality product, there was no stopping them. I'd say that the Japanese took over circa 1973-1974. They were certainly aided by the press. The Nishiki Olympic was rated 1st choice in the 1972-1973 Consumer's Buyer's Guide. The first Japanese bicycle to be tested in Bicycling magazine was a Fuji in late 1972. They didn't gush over the Japanese bicycles but they did receive generally good reviews and it brought them to the attention of the public. In my region, the big swing came in the late summer of 1973, after the Sekine factory in opened in Canada. In 1974, Sekine outsold Peugeot, Gitane, Raleigh and CCM combined, in the shop where I worked.

Originally Posted by 3alarmer

...I don't know anyone who thinks that hi ten japanese production bikes were "the dominant product" other than in the fact that they sold a great many of them. Are you certain you don't mean stuff like Tange, Champion, and Ishiwata tubing frames ? They also made and sold a metric tonne of those.

Originally Posted by T-Mar

The bling effect has a huge influence on the uneducated consumer, regardless of the product. So yes, things like shiny paint, the amount of chrome and the decal style had a very big impact in this market segment.

Originally Posted by RobbieTunes

Nice pun. Half the price of a ladder, 1/2 the price of a can of soda, 1/4 the price of home construction. Victim mentality and those who generate it are huge drains on the productivity of a nation. It's a destructive parasitic situation that sucks the vitality and creativity out of governments, institutions, new businesses, products, and services, and creates huge burdens on true victims to "prove it," because they're lumped in with the rest who don't.

Just another aspect of lack of personal accountability, on both sides of the issue, and guess who's getting rich off of it? There's enough money in fraud (both false and exaggeration) alone to create free health care for every citizen in the US.

Originally Posted by T-Mar

We are talking entry level bicycles being purchased by teenagers and twenty-somethings, whose previous cycling experience were probably hi-risers or middleweights. They wouldn't know the difference between a lively and dead handling frame. Bicycle selection was largely a matter of base instincts, what little they'd read and the opinions of their friends. The bling effect has a huge influence on the uneducated consumer, regardless of the product. So yes, things like shiny paint, the amount of chrome and the decal style had a very big impact in this market segment.