Depends who you ask.

Legally, no. In terms of education and experience, yes. In other words I have a master's degree and 12 years of experience, but I have chosen not to get a licence at this time. I work with a licensed architect so it's not really necessary for me now. I'll probably do it soon, as he's thinking of retiring.

Many of the long term contributors to this C&V forum can strip a frame at a leisurely pace in an hour. It takes some time to clean and photograph parts, but it less time then reassembling, tuning, and getting an overhauled bike picture and ride perfect, not to mention the purchase of new consumables.

Overall, the market is sluggish IMHO, in part because the shift to mobile Internet platforms equalizes all the photos on craigslist.

I haven't picked up a craigslist/ebay bike since the beginning of November 2016, a clean Jamis MTB to flip or keep in the ADK. I haven't acquired a"keeper" since August 2016. I haven't tried to sell since November either.

There are plenty of optimistic sellers out there, in NJ and in Michigan, some who keep posting the same bike, month-after-month, and in some cases, year after year, including the yellow Del Romi somewhere in NJ/NY for $400 and the damaged RB-1 in Detroit for $700. Over 80% are not in front row, ready-to-ride condition, but the prices can be out of sight. I scan every day, but have become more selective as space is tight.

I enjoy all aspects of this hobby/activity; riding, wrenching, buying, selling, and making new friends here combine for a rewarding past time. I've learned far more here than I have contributed.

Refurbishing bikes for sale allows me to keep the collection part of the hobby revenue neutral and maintain the bikes I ride in great condition.

I like grail type as well, but for pure fun and variety I do some mid range stuff and make them mine. That's what gets me going. Having something different.

I don't do this to sell anything, that would just take the fun out of it for me. With that said, I watch my purchases and make good buys. I have paid a little more for nice stuff and I have made buys for pennies on the dollar. I don't post my figures but I doubt even my cheaper builds exceed what I think market value is on a bike. Of course as with most here. My time invested would kill just about any value, so I consider it therapy. I've also pretty much found my limit and am now enjoying the fine tuning.

X3. I thought I was the only one here that liked aluminum. I ride the late 80s Klein or my PK fixed more than anything.

I think part of my attachment was being an 80s kid and aluminum being all the rage in light weight bmx bikes. And annodized parts.

This!

The only problem is where to keep it all

A lot of my Puegeots, etc, I picked up for $100 or so, and most were basket cases, but I tend to have another $300-400 into then by the time I replace the bars (usually Nitto), levers, pedals, saddle (always Brooks), wheels, tires (usually Schwalbe), cables, pads... it adds up.

Otoh, it's been a great hobby and I've gotten tremendous enjoyment out of every aspect: planning the projects, buying or scavenging parts, stripping the frame, cleaning parts, building them up, making something really special (to me), then there's the riding. I know I couldn't recover my money out of a single vintage bike I've restored. But overall, it's worth it and far cheaper than a guy into cars.

I agree.

The Colnago is more or less done. Have to throw on a different chain and that's it. Then I'll get it outside for some pictures. We've been enjoying the weather so it hasn't been that high on my list this week. Ha

I picked up all my bikes for a fraction of their new prices..just like everything else the original owner takes the largest depreciation hit. Just like everything (except art and true collectables) they will continue to depreciate. I know I won't get the monetary value of my builds but I do keep in mind smiles per miles. Building a bike is an expression of self, personalizing it a way of projecting your creativity and personality.
If playing with bikes were to become a source of revenue I think most of the joy I get would be replaced with spreadsheets. I'll keep the joy, and smiles, and keep on carrying on.
Now to sell some bikes,.

$3.50

In my area, there seems to be a shortage of vintage bikes coming into the market. What I see are lower-end bikes with too high an asking price, and nearly none with enough OEM components to be worth restoring. I gave up restoring bikes for profit, now I just do it for a hobby, something to fill up my time with. As to vintage parts, they're getting more scarce and prices are going way too high. Try to sell a higher-end bike and you'll end up taking a big hit. I think the market has about tapped out.

It takes maybe an hour, tops, to completely break a bike down to saleable components. Takes longer if you want to reassemble the bike than if you don't.

Generally people also have a more critical eye on whole bikes than for parts IMO. One bad part on a complete bike can easily lose a sale, whereas the good remains can be sold easily. This isn't true for every bike, just those made up from individually desirable components.

Breaking a bike is the easiest route, but not the most noble in the view of serious collectors (not that I'm losing sleep over it, do as you wish of course)

I live in a college town and there is a solid c&v market driven by the students.

Can't wait to see them.

Yes, it was 62 here yesterday.

Just outrageous!

Given so few high quality vintage bikes, and most of them overpriced, I typically go the "retro-roadie" route when building bikes for myself from good vintage frames (at least from the mid 70's forward). For those, I have no hope of getting my money back unless they are parted out. Given the generally losing proposition for flips unless I have high volume, I am getting selective and buying only highly desirable (to me) stuff. Typically passing on many deals I would have jumped at a few years ago.

I think the "vintage market" is evaporating. Many of the best vintage bikes were converted to fixed... and many of those have found there way to dumpsters. It is getting harder and harder to find vintage bikes in decent shape. But for plain old vintage bikes.... I don't see the dwindling supply affecting demand. Old bikes are cheap. Often selling for less than the value of just the detachable parts... that can reused on more "classic" old bikes.

The better (and well preserved) examples.... with become fine beginner collector bikes in the near future. With solidly increased pricing.

Classic old bikes are however a different story. I think fewer "garage finds" of the old classic bikes have stabilized prices in an otherwise poor market. With most classic bikes already in the hands of appreciative collectors I think prices have already been as low as they will ever be.

I believe fine, classic bikes will appreciate greatly in the years to come.

I think it just depends on your level of interest. When you lose interest, you see fewer opportunities. When your interested you see more.

I would say our market for C&V up here is "active". Our small communities have sustained a cycling attitude/altitude over the decades. This always feeds the market, as we know. You just never know what you will find. Prices vary from crazy cheap to crazy CL expensive (like someone is funding a mortgage payoff from a bike sale).

This is the large impetus behind things being collectible. And the next quote is why C&V bikes will continue to be collectible going forward.

This has been my experience too. I've sold about 20 1980s Italian-make bikes in the last 2 years. About 2/3 of them are bought by 15-25 year olds. Some of these kids are seeing their friends with cool celeste Bianchis and want one too, but can't afford one. They will be able to fulfill that desire once they start working and making money. Hence I agree with the following:

There are now two generations of people into the "same" stuff. The demographic outlook for this hobby is unlike any other. Where can you find people interested in the same stuff their dad was?

I have to say, though - the following is an incredibly confusing read because you don't define the terms you coin. Can you explain to me the difference between "vintage bike", "plain old vintage bike", "old bike", and "classic old bike"? You imply these are all different but you don't say in what way.

My feeling is that the market has been pretty much the same for the last five years or so. Right about the end of 2011-beginning of 2012, consumers interested in nicely finished vintage-y bikes started to seriously decline. Prior to that, I'd put an ad up on CL for a refurbished mid-late 80's Cannondale or Schwinn and it would be sold for the asking price within a day or two. After that, it became multiple ad postings, more scams, fewer honestly interested buyers. Although I eventually sell everything I build, the process is much, much slower. Yes, I sell for a premium price, but these are premium bikes, built and refinished with the best possible bits.

Interesting too, that at the same time the supply of refurbishable bikes waxes and wanes. One would expect that good cheap bikes would be easily located, but I may go through a period of several months without coming across anything worth purchasing. Then all of a sudden a whole bunch appears. So, I guess it's good to be prepared with ready cash. Over the winter I acquired five Cannondales (some here, some local). Two are ready for sale, two are already at the new powder coaters, and the fifth will go when we get back from Palm Springs.

Upper end stuff is certainly out there, and I believe that a lot more will surface as older collectors pass away or downsize. Even the expensive stuff (say, $1000 or more) is not so pricey when compared to a new midlevel carbon bike. Some of it is clearly overpriced by owners who don't want to take the depreciation hit or family members who believe they've inherited a rare gem, but that stuff has always been out there and eventually self-corrects. The really expensive stuff that is honestly worth $3-5,000 will continue to sell to people who really want a Herse, Tomii, etc.

Anyway, just my $.02, seen from where I am.

Flat to down over the last several years here. Interest has dropped way off (myself included) for many steel bikes. The 150 and under market does OK for full refurbs in season, other than that it is a buyers market everywhere. I stopped buying projects last summer and sold off all non riders (on ebay and it took awhile with fair prices) in the last year.

Just one view. The hardcore picker around here still contacts me pretty regularly and says interest is down everywhere. Good for buyers/hoarders I guess.

State of Vintage Market is broad.

BMX - ^
ATB - ^
cruisers - --
IGH townie - ^
low grade lightweights - ^
mid grade lightweights - --
high grade lightweights - --
blue chip lightweights - ^
track / pista - ^
ancient - ^

Our mutual friend Luciano was on the cover of last month's Grinta!, a Belgian cycling magazine. You can guess where our 'retro' market is right now.

Just my personal observation but know more than a few paying up for some rough condition BMX and bike boom 10 speeds. I was surprised when one told me a crazy price paid for dust collected but overall nice condition Varsity at a garage sale.

For those who've been digging deeper for high end lightweights, there's been at least four significant collections up for sale in the states. Slowly offered up and using a more conservative approach sales. Incredible deals to be had but could only imagine if these were all offered at the same time. Flood the market and further erode demand. Will there be more of these collections coming up in the next 4 or 5 years, who knows but if the trend, I don't see much of any gains in valuation.

Contrary to the BMX and vintage atb. The twenty and 30 year old age group are stepping up and buying everything in sight. Prices fetch well over many fine lightweights. Matter of fact, brand new limited edition such from Haro trade waaay over the very high to begin with MSRP. Never ridden used, $1500-$2k, etc.

College towns are still into single speeds, though less so for fixed gear. Vintage IGH are a cool thing to have on campus and when I see them posted for sale, the average is $275. Some ask $400 and they're quickly sold. Schwinn Racer's prices are goofy. Now seeing 'asking' $500 to a high of $700. Absolute nutty. Raleigh DL-1 are too nice for campus use and also priced out of sight, though any other other 3 speed by the mark has big demand.

Vintage balloon cruisers are out. So many retro type, ready to roll out of Target and Walmart for $200 and thats saturated demand for the once pricey oldies from Columbia, Schwinn, etc.. There's also another segment of brand new, limited edition retro custom cruisers priced just under the $1,000 range. These typically are purchased by older folks into the car cruise culture. They gravitate to a brand new, minty but semi custom flare. They don't want an old Schwinn. The 50's Pontiac owner who wants a modern crate motor, slammed suspension and flashy wheels go for these bikes. Though in the same type of buyer, will pay largely for mint 60'-70's muscle bikes.

The state of the vintage market is Idaho.

They paid $17 for naming rights.

I had a 2007 Giant OCR3 with upgraded wheels and crank. Sold it for $200(?) I think. I couldn't get any real money for it. It was a good entry level ride but nothing exotic. Crazy.

It's clearly New Jersey. Gov. Christie is out on his DeRosa nearly every day.

Vintage simply put... means old. Although (particularly to a collector) being old doesn't imply any value. There were many copies of my great old Schwinn Varsity made. Any value of those plain old vintage Chicago made Schwinn's.... are mostly sentimental.

Classic implies a product of quality. A high quality French, or Italian imported into the States in the early years... was always a rare find. The cost has always been high (by bicycle standards). And as the years go by... those fine old bike will only increase in rarity and value.