Our local bike co-op had this Zeus frame. While it's too big for me, I despair that it will be scrapped without at least a good evaluation of the chances of repairing it.

The entire rear triangle (seat stays and chain stays) is bent to the drive side. The string passes 24.14mm from the seat post on the drive side and only 4.5mm from the non-drive side.

Pictures follow.

Thanks.

Brad

Untitled by BJ Stevens, on Flickr

Untitled by BJ Stevens, on Flickr

Untitled by BJ Stevens, on Flickr

Untitled by BJ Stevens, on Flickr

Looks to be worth taking to a framebuilder, or someone with an alignment setup and give it a try. Not a job to be undertaken without good measuring ability.


Is the paint cracked at the bend areas?


I had a fork that offset the wheel by almost a cm. It was realigned and dropouts reset without undo difficulty and awaits final build.

Probably: yes. If you have a good frame builder/repairist in your area and budget for that then let the experts have at it, otherwise...get the 2x4s and consult with the late great Sheldon Brown and this will definitely take many passes to get 'right' again.

The 2X4 leverage technique and string measurement check is only the preferred method on R531 when scrapping it is the alternative.

You've got nothing to lose in trying to cold-set it back into alignment. That's what I'd try first. If the tubes buckle or otherwise fail with cold-setting, then decide whether it's worthwhile to pursue tube replacement.

Somewhere between maybe and probably, depending on what you're after. The real worry is the joints:

Bottom bracket: Although that's a big "whack", the movement at the bottom bracket isn't a whole lot.
Dropouts: I'm guessing this got hit in a side collision (really going out on a limb here!) and there was a wheel in the dropouts. This probably saved the dropouts from much damage.
Seat stay/dropout braze: Looks ok to me from the pics.
Brake bridge: here's where it gets tricky. If the goal is to straighten it out, you'd have to somehow use that point as the fulcrum to bend it back. I would try using a frame block, preferably a wood one to lessen edge stress, and grab it right above the bridge on the non-drive side, then use a lever (2x4 or frame alignment tool) and work just on that side. You can make your own frame blocks out of a block of hardwood and the right sized drill bit, then just cut it in half.

Once you get the non-drive side seat stay reasonably straight, you can center, space, and align the dropouts per the "usual" method.

If I sight down the drive side seat stay, it looks like it's a bit curved down near the dropout. I wouldn't try to mess with that. Grab a bunch of old steel frames and sight down the seat stays, you'd be amazed at how many aren't perfectly straight, but they're still rideable.

Of course, inspect all the joints before and after and look for evidence of cracking. Brazed steel joints are pretty tough. You only get cracks from tubes overheated during brazing, or brazes that didn't fully penetrate.

So, why not give it a go, what do you have to lose?

Judging from the photo, I think it might not be bent to one side. It looks to me more like one side is bent inward and the other may be OK, or at least close. I'd start y measuring the rear dropout width and then adding spacers to bring the inside width up to 120mm or 126mm to the outside of the bent side, and seeing if it's close to centered.

Once you know, and given that it's a "saved from the scrap" frame, I'd do a rough align, based on 120 or 126 OLD whichever was closer. throw on some wheels, bar and seat and do a test ride coasting on a shallow slope. If it's close, I'd complete a build out and see what I had.

After the rough align, it might need some refining, but I think this frame could most definitely is worth a shot as long as I didn't have to gamble too much.

That bent seat stay is probably the easiest tube to replace on a frame, since they typically go on last...hey, that frame happens to be my size...



John, did you notice the little added "point" brazed just below the seat lug tip, right above the 531 decal? I wonder what that's all about? Maybe shine a light down the seatpost and see if it's hiding a hole or crack?

edit: looking again, that's the out of focus fork in the background, so that must be the shifter stop. I confused the dirty outline of the shifter clamp as a lug...time to check my prescription again.

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Looks eminently cold-seettable to my eye.

Agree with FBinNY that most deformation appears on NDS. There is a bit of a bow in the DS seat stay - tailor made for the Park tool.

Park frame straightner | The Classic and Antique Bicycle Exchange

https://www.parktool.com/assets/doc/p...ts-Diagram.pdf

gugie wrote:

"John, did you notice the little added "point" brazed just below the seat lug tip, right above the 531 decal? I wonder what that's all about? Maybe shine a light down the seatpost and see if it's hiding a hole or crack?


edit: looking again, that's the out of focus fork in the background, so that must be the shifter stop. I confused the dirty outline of the shifter clamp as a lug...time to check my prescription again."

"Aye now me laddie. Hits home 'ere as well!"

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It is hard to tell if there is a crease in the left seatstay. The left chainstay also appears bent.

How much would the frame be worth if it wasn't bent? The paint doesn't look to be in too bad of shape. So, maybe $100 - $150 if it was in decent shape.

You might try straightening it, but I would still consider it as "damaged goods". But, that should preserve most of the paint and might make a difference between worth it or not worth it.

I think it would be a great "practice frame" for an amateur frame builder, but probably not worth paying retail for repairs. But, tube replacement also means a repaint.

Hard to say from the photos, but it looks as if the whole rear triangle has shifted towards the drive side in addition to the bent, non-drive side stay. You should be able to cold set it, provided there are no creases in the tubes or cracks in the brazing.

To determine if the whole triangle has shifted, run the string to the seat stays at the brake bridge and repeat the string to seat tube measurements.

You don't special tools to perform the cold setting. They just expedite the process. The shaft from an old hockey stick is a more manageable lever than a 2x4. There's usually plenty, for free, outside rinks.

Not just your eyes - I saw exactly the same thing and was ready to comment on it!

Nothing to add here other than to talk value. If you could repair it for $200, would you? That of course could mean new stays and such. Then of course a repaint and new decals...

See where I'm going with this?

If the frame has sentimental value, all bets are off. It's definitely okay once in awhile to defy logic and put way more into something than it's worth if only to satisfy that sentiment. I'd wager we've all been there at least once.

DD

Well, if it was mine, I could repair it for about $25 in materials, plus paint and decals. $200 is probably not far off from a real world repair. What would suck is that the chrome would be ruined. Now it's no longer recognizable as a vintage Zeus.

And yeah, I've been there!

$25, really? Does that include being paid for your time, or just materials?

DD

Nope, if it were MY frame, that's what it would cost ME! A pair of stays can be had for about $20, a few bucks for gas, flux, filler rod at most. My TIME, of course, would be worth something. I'd hacksaw out most of the blade, grind and file away the bits around the seat tube lug, brake bridge, and dropout - that would be most time consuming, not damaging the bits that stayed. Probably even remove the brake bridge and put a new one in, now that I think about it, would simplify things. I'd also want to sand off most of the chrome around the dropout. 4-6 hours of work? I always underestimate, though...

Of course, while I was at it I'd rerake the fork, add a bunch of bits...

I have no extra knowledge on the repair. If that finish and those decals are original then that is a pretty nice original condition Zeus frame. If I could get it for free I would spend a couple hundred to try and fix it. I would really hope for a fix that didn't damage the paint. Once you get into tube replacement and paint/chrome you are probably spending way more than this frame is worth.

I cold set a frame with quite a bit larger stay offset bending, and it has had no further problems. rides straight now too. I believe you can do it yourself, with gugie's tutorial above. Ride it for a year without painting, and check for damage periodically.

Yes these repairs do tend to mushroom into more effort/time then we initially think. Humans are an optimistic bunch. Andy

OT but speaking of mushrooming - I had a frame which appeared to be sound. After an oxalic clean revealed a hairline crack where the rear dropout met the RHS fork and some creative grinding on the stay to fit a 7 speed. The frame had to be chemically stripped of chrome to be repaired, rechromed, sprayed and decalled etc etc etc etc, and that was just the frame. Looks good now though.

Thanks to all for the comments and repair suggestions. As I said at the outset, the frame is too big for me so it's now off to Atelier Gugie for repair and then who knows what.

Brad

Got home, saw a small package in the kitchen, a few items to use on my decaleur project. Wife and kids were out shopping, they got home aroun 6:30. At 7 my better half said, "Oh, there's a big package in the hallway for you". The Zeus from Calgary had arrived!

After dinner I took it out to the shop to take a look at it. Brad packaged it up nicely, better than most I've received that were in nearly NOS condition. I chucked the bottom bracket on my vice to take a look:



Yep, not so good looking. Let's take a look at the seat stays against a straight edge:





What the heck, let's see what we can do...I already had a plan figgered out...



Better bring out the heavy artillery:



Li'l tug here, li'l tug there, check using the unfortunately named Frame Alignment Gauge and calipers to check spacing...



The right side is a reminder of the saying "perfect is the enemy of good". There's a small gap between the right side seat stay and the straight edge. Everything else is well aligned. If you have a bunch of vintage bike frames, pull out a straight edge and check them out. You'll be surprised at how many no hands riders aren't perfectly straight everywhere.


Dropout tools to dial it in just right at 126mm spacing:



Tomorrow, the fork. Wheel doesn't center. With curves and independent blades, not to mention fixed dropouts, it's a bit more work.

Wow, more fantastic work Gugie! I REALLY dig when someone takes what's been discarded as scrap and brings it back to life again!

Sweet, that is a hi tensile rear triangle right? Isn't only the main triangle Reynolds?

So a cold setting was all it took?

That turned out nice, I thought that frame was probably toast.