Help with ID of a Frame Please?
 

I was delivering 3 skids of Thule accessories to a bike shop in Chicago and noticed this in the junk pile. I thought it was low end at first glance but was drawn to the Bar Ends. It only took a couple of seconds to ask if I could take it. They said it was to old and not worth fixing. Good thing for me they are so young that they have no idea that it had a Crane RD, Tiltlist Fd, Campagnolo seat post to go with the Shimano Fingertip control Barcons.

There are no decals on the bike other than what looks like the remnants of a 531 decal, a Custom Made decal and a bike shop decal for a headbadge. If I was to guess, I would say Raleigh Super Course? Stronglight Competition Head Set and BB. BB shell is 68. Fork is 22.2 . Seat post is 26.2. Experts?

http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps67jonpz2.jpghttp://i951.photobucket.com/albums/a...psfuyq2chv.jpghttp://i951.photobucket.com/albums/a...psuuxbt1sn.jpghttp://i951.photobucket.com/albums/a...psqro9l6cn.jpghttp://i951.photobucket.com/albums/a...psfmy9gq1m.jpghttp://i951.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps3rz12jjo.jpghttp://i951.photobucket.com/albums/a...pspvqhsebw.jpghttp://i951.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps4x38d10m.jpg

Quick guess - Gitane TdF

Definitely not a Raleigh SuperCourse. Wrong rear brake stop, no top-tube braze-ons for a brake cable, no BB braze on for derailleur cable routing.

Looks like a gypsy girl from Nantes to my eye as well.

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Nice bits to go with your mystery frame!

What plans for it?

So Gitane used English sizes? I assumed it had to be English. I learn as I go. I will probably just part it out, keep what I need. The front hub is shot.

Another vote for frankenbiked Gitane Tour de France. Based on the brake cable bridge, it is probably very early 1970s, as these disappeared circa 1973.

Regarding the 22.2 stem size -

These Gitanes constructed with NERVOR steerers oft have oversize steerer i.d.'s. Have had them where a 21.9/22.0 stem just rattles around and cannot get tight enough even thought the steerer o.d. is 25.0 and the thread metric. Do not know if problem lies at door of MICMO or at that of NERVOR but it is certainly a pain.

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Gitane TdF. The headset looks like Stronglight. The stamps on the dropouts look older than the ones on other Simplex dropouts I've seen from the early '70's.

Has the drive side dropout been hacked?

Nice find, by the way. Even better price!

Frame is constructed with Juy ends nr. 881 & 881B. No gear hanger.

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...hmentid=311093

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...hmentid=310402

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Even my gas pipe Gitane mixte (60cm seat tube!) of that era has that "handmade" sticker. This makes me think about pulling that mixte out for a ride...

Thanks for all of the help. The consensus seems to be a TDF. Maybe they used English threading and stem sizing for export to the USA? The bottom bracket is English? Crazy. Makes the bike easy to work with.

I concur that it looks likely to be a Gitane. What "English sizes" are you referring to? A Gitane of that vintage would have metric bottom bracket and steer tube. Have you checked the threads on either of those places?

68mm bottom bracket shell width is not definitive for English thread. Have you actually checked the threads? Any marking on the cups that might indicate thread spec?

Bottom bracket shell measures 68 and both sides righty tighty lefty loosey. The stem measures 22.5 on my cslliper.

My immediate thoughts also turned to Gitane, even before reading past the first post. But the rear end has me wondering about whether it is a Tour de France model or not.

My friend's TdF of early 70s vintage had Simplex dropouts with a RD hanger (for Simplex derailleurs, natch). If you wanted Campy or Shimano (or pretty much anything that wasn't Simplex) you could (a) tap the hanger or (b) saw the thing off and use the adapter plate as this one has. If this one had its hanger hacked off, I'd say it's a TdF and call it a day. But if it never had a hanger, might that mean it is a Gitane Interclub (the next model down the food chain, IIRC) rather than a TdF? Just askin'.

If the fixed cup is right-hand threaded, it ain't English. Right-hand thread fixed cup plus 68mm wide shell = either French or Swiss, and I believe French. They have the same threads dimensions, but one is right-hand threaded for the fixed cup and the other is left-hand threaded. I think right-hand threaded means it's French - maybe someone can confirm this.

BTW, if and when you reinstall a right-hand threaded fixed cup back into the BB shell, use some blue Loctite, tighten it until it screams for mercy, and then tighten it a little more. If you don't, right-hand threaded fixed cups tend to become self-loosening about 10 to 15 miles into your first ride. :eek: Don't ask me how I know this. :mad:

I have seen other early TdFs without a RD hanger.

Ok, that makes sense now, i had my mind crossed on direction. French thread it is. :)

"French" thread bottom bracket shells are also 68mm wide, and the fact that both sides loosen counter-clockwise means it isn't English thread (English fixed cups loosen clockwise). This pretty much makes the case for a "French" thread bottom bracket. And, as noted above, Nervar steer tubes (frequently used on French frames including Gitane) and often slightly oversize. Not to mention, previous owner could have sanded down a standard stem to fit into a metric diameter steer tube. The fork looks to be original to the frame, so try an English thread headset cup on the steer tube. I'll be surprised if it fits.

Your suspicion is correct: a right-hand threaded fixed cup means "French" thread. Both French and Swiss thread bottom bracket cups are threaded 35mm x 1mm, but the Swiss thread fixed cup is left-hand thread like English.

Not sure why two different standard quill stems I have tried, fit into the fork, maybe it was reamed?

They look earlier than '70's. The Mercier I have is '70-'71 and has the hanger and that funky horn.