Hey guys, I'm in the process of installing a new groupset onto a vintage frame. I spaced out the rear from 126 to 130 and have used the string method to ensure frame is aligned (about 35mm either side of seatpost tube) but can't get the wheel to sit centered for the life of me. When i have the axles all the way back in the dropouts the wheel hits the non driveside stay. I've tried using a homemade tool to ensure the dropouts are aligned with each other but i think my non driveside stay is longer than the drive side chainstay :S is this a possibility and possibly a manufacturing flaw? I can get the wheel centered by having the left side half way up the dropout and the right all the way in to factor for the lobger stay but is it safe to ride this way?

not all frames are made such that a rear wheel set all the way back in the dropouts is centered. it's not necessarily indicative of a misaligned frame. it's possible that the depth of the dropouts don't match. it's fixable, but unnecessary IMO, just center the wheel and clamp're down. it'll stay.

"i think my non driveside stay is longer than the drive side chainstay" - maybe.

Try reversing the wheel (sprockets next to non-drive-side dropout).

If the tire or rim still hits the non-drive-side stay, take the frame to a decent bike store (or, better, a frame builder) for an alignment check.

If the tire or rim no longer hits the non-drive-side stay, get the wheel checked for correct dishing.

Install the wheel and ensure that it is centered between the chain stays. Now, look at the top of the wheel - does it line up with the brake mounting hole in the seat stays brace? If so, you are OK, sort of. Sort of...

After cold setting the stays, did you check to ensure that your drops are parallel to one another? If not, expect axle problems as that misalignment will stress the axle which will, sooner or later, break. And/or...

Are you sure that your wheel is dished properly and true? Check that also, just in case.

Ok so I cold set the frame to 130, aligned the dropouts using "rjthebikeguys" guide on youtube (using carriage bolts, bolts and washers) and then checked alignment using sting (roughly 35mm either side), stick the wheel in all the way and its off center and rubs the non drive chainstay. I can center it and i think from memory it did sit right under the brake bolt and spun nice and true. Just not sure whether its ok to run it this way, will the different positions of the axle on the dropouts be an issue?

Ps wheel is straight and true - checked 2 other wheels and same thing happens, flipped the wheel and same thing happens. I do notice at certain alignments the 10sp wheel is quite hard to slip on.

One last alignment check I do often (and do all the time when I see built up bikes in general) is to sight along the length of the bike from the front. I have the head tube in the center of my vision and close to my eyes then sight along either side of it, the sides of the seat tube, the forward portion of the rim nearest the seat tube and then the rearward portion of the wheel (opposite the first wheel portion). If the main triangle is well aligned with the rear end and if the wheel is dished well and centered within the frame all four sighting surfaces will line up/converge the same on both sides. Sometimes I do this from behind the bike just to get another view.


Otherwise what's been said is good advice. BTW one of the reasons that slotted drop outs (be they horizontal road or track) is that the likely misalignment referenced here is so easily dealt with. I've seen many bikes with this and had no other handling issues. Andy.

...yes it's OK to run it that way. If one or the other stays (or dropouts) is longer, it's just how things are. The important thing for tracking and handling is to have the rim and tyre running centered and in line with the plane of the bike/rider combination.

The string method for checking frame and dropout alignment is only as accurate as the user's technique. But if you got that right, your only option is this. Make certain the string is coming off the same spot on each dropout, and that there's no interference with anything else on its way around the head tube. Also, make sure you're measuring to a spot on each side to the closest place on the curved surface of the seat tube.

If there is a significant difference in the length of the stays (by measurement), that can also throw off your measurement from string to seat tube a little, but probably not enough to matter.

Ok thanks a lot for the advice. I spoke with few bike shops and they all said to concentrate on centering the wheel, not on the position of the axle on the dropouts, one guy said it's fine to have it all the way back in the drive-side dropout and half way back on the non drive-side.

I did one final check, used the string (going through the exact position of the drop-outs and tied at the front of the bike at the head tube), I made a few slight adjustments - this time using a plank of wood (Sheldon's method) and got the string to about 35-36mm either side of the seat-post. I then used my homemade tools to align the drop-outs, got them to be parallel to one another and aligned (i think) to the frame. The spacing is about 130-132 and the new wheel went on ok. I then made sure that the wheel was central in relation to the brake hole and seat-tube and then tightened the skewer quite tight. It all seems ok, the wheel spins nicely and is quite central and looking at where the dropouts touch the wheel axles it seems quite flush. Only thing is as I mentioned the axles don't sit on the exact same position of the dropouts but as I've been told it's OK I don't think there's much to worry on. I tried the wheel on another steel frame I had which was 126mm (just stretched it for the wheel to fit) and had it all the way back in the dropouts and noticed it was off center too so I'm guessing it's more common than I thought on steel frames and reason why the dropouts are long and horizontal to allow for mini adjustments.

Like everyone here said.

With vertical dropouts the wheel doesn't have any adjustment. The framebuilder has to get the wheel centered or it never will be



Horizontal dropouts? They often have adjustment screws, which makes it easy to center the rear wheel the first time you set it up, then forget it.

Yep mine are horizontal, but I don't have the adjusting screws...

The only thing I can think of is that the DS dropout was made longer to incorporate a "claw" type derailleur. I've never seen that in person, but it makes sense... sorta...

Find a pair, install them and your problem will disappear. Your issue is one of the reasons they exist

DD

My dropouts don't have holes for them

I have two bikes without holes for dropout adjusters.

On one I use the adjusters like the picture below (not my bike pictured). On the other, I use no adjusters, move the wheel to where it needs to be and crank down the skewers. It doesn't budge and I've put some hard miles on it.

Back in the era of horizontal dropouts, there was no great effort made to make sure the wheel would center at the ends of the slots. Horizontal dropout design assumes you'll place the wheel somewhere along the slot, depending on the desired wheelbase and other considerations.

Don't fret this "defect". Just place the wheel where you want it, and center it. if you have dropout stops, or if the dropouts have micro-adjust screws, that's how you ensure that the wheel will return to the exact same place and center itself each time.

Ahh yes I have dropout stops just remembered!! I'm guessing they can be tightened down at any position in the dropouts not just all the way back?

You'd be guessing right.

That's fine; the adjusters are only there as a convenience, to allow for faster wheel changes. This is really only an issue for racers, at events with team or neutral support to quickly change wheels in the event of a flat or wheel damage. The rest of us mere mortals can take a second or two to center the wheel between the stays before tightening the quick release. Don't worry if the wheel isn't all the way to the back of the slot; it's not necessarily supposed to go there and often shifting is better when the axle is a little forward of the end of the slot. Experience will tell you where it works best, and then just position the axle where the old clamp marks on the dropout show it was before you removed the wheel.