so im am a complete posure,,. All of my bikes are post 80.. heck my oldest is 98.. but im kinda confused on vintage vs classic. is classic older or more young then vintage? if I have a JP wiggle.. thats vintage.. but if I have a 90 Schwinn Paramount.. is that classic? or is that classic has more to do with character then age.. more about style ques then how old a thing is.. or perhaps I have it all flipped around and such... a classic is older then a vintage.. in short... how old must a thing be to make it a classic.. I think vintage is 25 years. but im not sure.

Many consider vintage an age and classic a state of mind.

ymmv

Classic implies quality. Vintage implies age

Classic
There are two generally accepted dictionary definitions for the adjective "classic" (below). I think we're talking the first one here. Since judgement is implied, I interpret this to mean "it's whatever you want it to be".

adjective: classic
1.
judged over a period of time to be of the highest quality and outstanding of its kind.
"a classic novel"

2.
remarkably and instructively typical.
"Hamlet is the classic example of a tragedy"


Vintage
I think we're talking a combo of 9, 10, and 11 here. Age is the key thing. Of course, one person's vintage bike is another person's used clunker. Most of us here focus on pre-mid-80s as the vintage era of interest. However, there are no hard and fast rules.

adjective: vintage

7. of or relating to wines or winemaking.

8. being of a specified vintage: Vintage wines are usually more expensive than nonvintage wines.


9. representing the high quality of a past time: vintage cars; vintage movies.


10. old-fashioned or obsolete: vintage jokes.


11. being the best of its kind: They praised the play as vintage O'Neill.

Several threads on this over the years.
In short:
The question is answered by each individual - but the standards used to qualify the answer varies.

The bike world changes so quickly.

By the time bikes hit the showroom floor, they're "vintage"

The important thing to know is that classic is always faster, it's like science.

An recent thread enthusiastically welcomed a new poster with a relatively recent steel-framed bike. Of my two I might consider my 2010 Rivendell a "classic", being a recent exemplar of the type. My '73 Raleigh Competition, on the other hand, is definitely "vintage" and mat even be a classic.

As a group, I'm struck that the idea of classic & vintage is more a mind set than anything else.
Welcome and cheers!
p.s., having a steel frame is NOT a requirement!

Both are exactly what you make of them, as said, its more of a state of mind than a precisely defined matter.

Bill

The word vintage certainly applies to the age of a thing, but how old something must be to be considered "vintage" depends entirely on a particular state of mind or generally accepted parameters. A teenager would probably call a bicycle from 1990 vintage without hesitation, while a senior citizen might scoff at calling something from 1975 vintage. Alternatively, different things become vintage at different ages under general criteria - a vintage phone is probably much older than a vintage bicycle, mainly given the fact that only phones which are relatively old are considered collectable simply due to their age.

As posted above, something can be considered "classic" mostly based on its qualities. In the case of bicycles and in particular among members of this forum, classic bicycles are usually built with materials and methods that give a nod (or a wink) towards vintage material.

That's my take. Cheers!

-Gregory

The definition here is pretty loose i would say, I think about it this way, If i think i would get laughed out of the Road forum when i ask about my 87 Ironman, then its C&V. Same for the Mountain Bike forum, if you get told to get a new bike.. then its C&V.

"Classic": what a seller calls the rusted Free Spirit he is selling.
"Vintage": what an overly polite observer calls a dilapidated Huffy Bay Pointe.
"Old": what a buyer calls a bike made before this year.

According to the thread title a bike has to be both classic and vintage.

For me, classic is a class of bicycle, such as a road bike or roadster or even a mountain bike. Vintage is a term that refers to the age of a bicycle. To add just a touch more personal information, if it is not at least 25 years old, it does not qualify as "vintage", in my opinion.

does it matter?

We really need to make a sticky on this.

IAB said it poetically...

Vintage is a fancy word for old. Very few vintage bikes, are, to me, classic. The line between vintage and old junk is tenuous and subjective.

Classic means timeless...it means the best of a particular period, or class. They're the bikes we drooled over in ads and magazines. There are some modern classics. Obviously this is subjective, but to me very few bikes posted here are classic.

Classic AND Vintage means both...old...best of its type, or period.

As far as what old means, it's often defined as 1983, or 25 years.

Post whatever you want...people will respond or they won't.

Bikes I'm selling are classic and/or vintage. Bikes I'm buying are old junk.

A 1960 Corvette is a classic...a Ford Pinto, not.

For "vintage" though I think the word has evolved to just being a fancier way of saying "old". When I was a kid, there was no Internet--if you wanted to sell something, you either posted an ad on the bulletin board at a store, or you paid for a classified ad in the newspaper. The classifieds charged per character, so ads were usually kept short and sweet: "74 Nova, low miles, loaded, 867-5309" No "vintage" description, the word seldom showed up in ads.

Then a couple of things happened. Antiques suddenly became very popular, and the Internet meant ads were free with plenty of space available for descriptions. Shows like the Antiques Roadshow began hyping the perceived value of old junk, and that filtered into classified ads. Whereas originally the word vintage also carried a slight air of being of value, now it became a fancy way of saying "old". So pre-Internet, if you were trying to sell an old piece of furniture, you would write "old table, slightly worn, cheap". Now with unlimited space for hyperbole, then the ad became "vintage table, exquisite character and desirable patina, $500"

I also see "vintage" being applied to anything more than a few years old.

I saw this picture recently and thought it was interesting....





Now, my definition of "vintage" is correct- never mind what anyone else says.

The word "vintage" comes from wine. The quality of wine is dependent on the grapes that are harvested in each particular season- some seasons produce good grapes, some seasons don't. Hence the phrase of "being of a good vintage."

It's got nothing to do with age, it's got to do with the properties of the object from when it was made.

This is effectively the "model year" thing- for cars, guitars, bikes... any number of things.

So, to me- using the term "vintage" comes with a connotation of coming from a time when desirable characteristics were utilized with the object in question.

It's not just an "older is better" thing.

Aside from components, often times bike frames got specced better as production runs went along. What may have started as a hi-ten bike may have evolved into something quite respectable. A 300 series Trek from the 70s is going to be made from hi-ten. A 300 series Trek from 1987 is going to be made from double butted 531 and CrMo. Big difference.

There's "vintage" stuff and there's old stuff.


As far as what goes here... What I really dig about this section of the forum is that it is pretty welcoming (for the most part). Modern-y bikes and parts that are inspired by objects from "the good old days" are generally readily accepted. Heck, even people who post blatantly modern stuff aren't generally shouted out. But if you're a part of the community- and you're not belligerent about what does or does not belong... you're a part of the community. It's pretty slick.

Classic is better, but vintage is more expensive.

Classic: Couldn't afford it when it was new. I'd ride it now.

Vintage: Made before I was born. Probably wouldn't ride it now.

well that sparked some interesting post.. thanks for clearing this up for me a bit.. all..

That is a classic answer. At seven pounds sterling and tenpence, my Grubb Routier frame was one of the cheapest handmade frames a working stiff in Britain could buy back in 1963. It's not even Reynolds, I don't think. We know it is vintage, but is it classic? In 2017? Heck yes!
If I was still in possession of my 1970 Schwinn Suburban or my 1967 Sears Adult Bicycle, which forum would I go to to show those off? C&V.., of course! If it's old.., bring it here.

Maybe we should make a minimum requirement to post here.

Got a bike? Ride it? Not a troll?

You'll be welcome here.

From Campagnolo Catalog site - Campybike

Modern era: 1995 - present
Classic era: 1984 - 1994
Vintage era: 1983 and earlier

I know the vintage bike rides have mid-80s (friction shifting, non-aero brake levers) cut offs, I believe.

I'm "restoring" a bike to adhere to "mid-late Classic Era" parts. Next project will be a Vintage Era bike.

Back in the 70's classic oldies music was from the 50's, it was barely 20 years old but had the feeling of being ancient from a young persons perspective. Now we listen to 90's rock and it's still considered modern rock. It's all relative. Classic Vintage is a state of mind, nothing you can really put your finger on.

Some bikes here are vintage because they're old. Some are classics because they have stood the test of time. Some are destined to become classics because they're so good. Some bikes here are both classic and vintage. Some bikes here are none of the above. We like them all.