This is why I hate shipping ebay stuff internationally. I don't have a frame box in my hands yet so I just checked what bike flights charges from my town to Berlin Germany, a frame box weighing 20lbs at 42x28x8 is $260.

The potential buyer claims he has had bikes shipped to Germany via USPS priority for $100. Of course when I go to USPS.com it tells me the box is too big to ship!

So has anyone shipped a frame to Europe lately?

USPS limits the box to 108 inches, that's length + height x2 + width x2. Your box is 114", you need to reduce the box to 40x26x8 if possible.

Have you checked Bikeflights.

I recently checked USPS and it was something like $180 to ship Virginia to Nebraska. Did you ask the guy when he last tried to do that? 1973 maybe?

When I ship a bare frame, I take the fork off and secure it with a lot of padding to the top or down tube. I can use a much smaller box that way. I took a beating on shipping my last frame; I assume because gas prices shot up because of Harvey.

I've heard good things about this service. The buyer sets up an account with a US address in their terminal in Florida and then pays a bulk rate to ship overseas. Seller just has to ship domestic to Florida.

https://www.myus.com

+1. box cut off is 108"

The max frame you can fit in a 108" is 23"/58cm...maybe on a good day you can fit an under size 24"/60cm. The key to this is laying the frame on its down tube..you need the DT to be flat against the bottom of the box. Without doing this there's no flippin' way you'll hit the 108"

It just cost me $65 to ship a frame from Tampa to Colorado. Unless your shipping an old Schwinn 20lbs is way too much. 15 pounds packed is about right.

I had an ebay buyer from Australia tell me about www.myus.com They're a broker similar but much different than bikeflights. I've suggested to several buyers that they setup myus accounts. Its worked out well.

[MENTION=165276]brian3069[/MENTION] yes using bike flights calculator it is $260+/-
[MENTION=6981]miamijim[/MENTION] How did you make out with Irma? As I said I don't have a box, the local shop hasn't had one, and I was just using Bikeflights data
[MENTION=396646]Spaghetti Legs[/MENTION] I may try trick.

I have heard good things about myus.com. As I understand it is a temporary US mailing address, so you ship the package to a US address instead of a foreign address.

[MENTION=208267]bianchigirl[/MENTION] I made out ok thanks for asking. I'm in Tampa so it wasn't too bad.

myus:

cost 1: Buyer sets up account (FREE 30 day trial)
cost 2: Shipping charge to Sarasora, FL from wherever the seller is ($50-ish from PA to Sarasota)
cost 3: myus shipping charge to buyers location. ($65-105 depending on weight)
Total: $110-155

I did a quick cost check on my us, 15lb box is $65-ish while a 20lb box is $105-ish. Keep in mind that myus uses FedEx/UPS/DHL so its reputable couriers.

USPS to Germany 15lbs 40X9X25 box 108" is $105
USPS to Germany 20lbs 40X9X25 box 108" is $123

USPS FTW

Better deal than sending a small package these days.
I just sent my brother a small book. He lives near Bremen. Twenty bucks!
Twice what the book cost.
But it was a very good book.

So check this out. the potential buyer came up with, but the only problem is I have to match those dimensions and weight. I hope he is using the exchange rate to get a $500 because if he was squaking about shipping charge no way he was gonna bid that much!

It's $94.70 on USPS

On "https://postcalc.usps.com/" select and fill in labels
Destination: Germany
Value: $500
Select right box named: Calculate price based on Shape and Size

Weight form opens
Weight: 22 pounds
Select right box named: Large Package Any dimensions over 12 Inches

Large Package Properties form opens
Length (inches): 38
Height (inches): 27
Width (inches): 8

Click Continue

Up comes "Priority Mail International" for $94.70

**** what you think ?

You could try ebay's shipping calculator too:

https://www.ebay.com/shp/Calculator

They offer some discounted rates if you purchase postage through them, but I have run into some services not actually being available.

First, everything I know about bike packing, I learned from miamijim. I've learned a lot of other stuff too, like moving upscale on flips.

With that said,

I've shipped several 25 inch frames in a 108 box, did one a couple of weeks ago. It measured at 25x7x43 = 107 inches. Note, I started with a bike box that was 9 inches wide. So cutting box in half was step one. I basically make a tray out of one half of the box, fit the frame in, then make a lid with the other half (after cutting and folding). Now a smaller frame takes less cutting!

But that took a lot of cutting. Half the time I spent on packing was just for creating the box. I've shipped up to 25 1/2 inch road frame but that was it.

USPS is better as they use a cloth tape to measure girth. Fed Ex measures each side separately and of course rounds everything up. So 6 1/8 inches wide = 7 inches, which they then double to 14 inches to calculate girth. So I always shoot for a box at least 1/2 inch smaller in every direction.

The shipments I described were Fed Ex via bikeflights.i learned from Jim the DT has to run along the bottom of he box, otherwise forget it.

On a $500 frame, how is ebay going to cover you on signature required? Can you even get a signature on a foreign shipment. Ebay's basic rule is any transaction over $250 (including the cost of shipping, so its easy to exceed this amount), you must require a signature upon delivery. Delivery confirmation is not sufficient.

Box sealed and ready for a label.

[IMG]25 inch frame packing it fits by wrk101, on Flickr[/IMG]

Now it fits!

[IMG]Packing 25 inch frame in a 108 inch box by wrk101, on Flickr[/IMG]

And now it doesn't fit!
[IMG]Packing 25 inch frame in a 108 inch box by wrk101, on Flickr[/IMG]

While I admire the creativity, shipping with a decent protection margin takes space, if they can't afford the freight, as a seller the risk of damage is too much to bare.

Well my main problem was not being able to even find a frame box so I could calculate shipping.

Now I need to figure out how to package, and how much it will cost to ship some rims before I list them.

I never use a frame box I start with a bike box and cut it down. Bike boxes are sized for motor freight and too large for Fed Ex, UPS and USPS shipping. Now if I could find a frame box, sure. But my nearby LBS doesn't buy and sell frames, I get what I can get.

The last several boxes I got at the LBS measured out to be 135 inches. So not only did they not meet the 108 inch limit, they were over the 132 inch limit as well.

No one will pay you for the time it takes to pack a bike. At best, you will get a little for materials. So the value of your time spent packing needs to be built into the price of a frame.

I typically ship via bikeflights, and a 108 inch box is cheaper than a 132 inch box.

Its just another reason that selling parts is so much easier.

It's Oktoberfest Season in Germany. Pack a small bag of clothes and Ship yourself and the Bike to Munich. After all we all need a Holiday.

So here's the thing, IMHO...you really have to ask yourself, in $$$ terms, how much your time and trouble is worth. Then ask yourself whether the extra time/inconvenience involved in cutting down boxes to hit that USPS 108" max is worth it. Remembering that you have to make sure the frame is protected well enough despite having less room for padding, make sure you've re-taped/re-stapled all the sides/flaps/corners you cut. Remember you're not just shipping it a lot further, the box will likely get handled/transferred more---and you are responsible for any shipping damage.

If it takes you 90min to prep/pack for domestic shipment, but twice as long for int'l via USPS, what's that extra time and effort worth to you? Will the international customer pay more money for the item? Could you sell it just as easily in the US without offering int'l shipping? Could you charge $25-$50 less without shipping int'l, saving yourself the extra time/effort?

There's no right/wrong answer here, you just might want to think this all the way through before you agree to ship this thing to Germany for $95.

I'm not shipping a lot of bikes/frames these days, but probably at least 70 over the past 10yrs. I'm pretty good with a box cutter, I liberally use my industrial box stapler, and I generally do not ship bikes/frames/wheels internationally. Just not worth the extra time/trouble for me.

And forgive me for sounding like a crotchety old jaded seller, but any potential buyer trying to tell me what my shipping costs should be, and how big a box I should be able to fit my item into, is somebody I ain't selling to. This one kinda smells like trouble to me.

It takes NO extra time to ship a bike/frame International than it does Domestic. And it takes NO extra materials. I pack every frame/bike the same regardless of destination.

[MENTION=208267]bianchigirl[/MENTION] Rims are very, very easy to package. Place the rims between 2 flat pieces of cardboard!! Easy, easy, $15-20 Domestic. Wheels are different story, difficult to package and expensive to ship.

[MENTION=109949]wrk101[/MENTION] Perfect pics Bill!! That's exactly how to package a frame set!!

Like I said I just didn't have a box so I had to rely on BikeFlights information. From now on I have a box and have the frame or bike packed before listing.

Two flat square pieces like the side of a bike box folded in half or round?

Yes, but don't fold a box side in half. Oddly enough if you do that you may go oversize on the package. Check into it but I think the USPS size cut off is 84"

So 2 pieces of 25" x 25" x 2"cardboard gets L=25 G=54 for a box size of 79" Going to a 26" by 26" gets you L=26 G= 56 for a box size of 82"

Play around with the online calculators...for rims it looks like 26 X 26 X 3 is the max without hitting a balloon charge. I can ship 2 rims from Tampa 33617 to NY 13760 for $16. Jump up to a 27 x 27 x 2 and the price is $45

[MENTION=208267]bianchigirl[/MENTION] remember you control the sale and shipping. If a buyer doesn't like it tough. Tell 'em to march.

A while ago I purchased a frame/fork from Switzerland. This is the box that it came in, though it did have an outer wrapping. It measures 40 inches along the diagonal.....the frame is a 54.

Sure takes me longer. I usually don't have to cut down boxes for domestic shipping. Pick the rightest-/closest-sized box, insert bike/frame, and Bob's yer uncle. Sometimes I'll shorten the end or lower the top if I need to, but it's usually not necessary.

Having to resize the box takes more time, and a 108" dim gives me less room for extra padding for bigger frames/bikes.

And FWIW, I didn't say anything about extra materials, just extra time/effort. Though I suppose you'd generally use more tape/staples having to resize the box, so, yeah, it does take extra materials. Quicker wear on your box cutter blades, too. Those blades add up over time...

It is all about box selection, unfortunately my local dealer only has full size bike boxes so thats what I've to work with...130" boxes.

When I pack frames I try to grab the narrowest or shortest box possible. Narrow boxes can save up to 4" in girth and shorter boxes save as well. Every inch narrower and ever inch less in height saves 2" in girth. But I'll go for a less height every time as it may prevent me from cutting down the height.

We may be talking in circles a bit here? Maybe talking about domestic/int'l is tripping us up, when what I think we really mean is shipping USPS vs FedEx.

My basic point is that I don't ship bikes/frames via USPS, domestic or int'l, because I can't find 108" boxes, and it takes extra time to cut down the boxes I can find to meet their minimum 108" dimension. And that 108" size makes it more difficult to pack larger frames/bikes. So instead I ship via FedEx/bikeflights, since I seldom have to cut down boxes for them.

But FedEx is a lot more expensive than USPS to ship bikes/frames internationally, and since I don't ship bikes/frames via USPS, I don't ship bikes/frames internationally unless we're talking high-value items. Few buyers will want to pay $250 to ship a frame that cost them under $500. If they don't want to pay $250 to ship a frame that will cost them $2k+, I'm happy not to sell to them.

So, you are correct, it takes no more time to ship int'l if you're shipping via USPS, since you have to cut down a box to 108" regardless of destination. And I am also correct, it is more time-consuming to ship USPS both domestic and int'l compared to FedEx, my shipper of choice, because you have to cut a box down to 108" for USPS.

My usual shipping conditions large items are: "Shipping is $xx via bikeflights, tracked and insured, signature required. No int'l shipping on bikes/frames/wheels." Anybody puts up a fuss about that, doesn't get to bid/buy. Smaller than wheels/rims gets shipped USPS Priority, tracked/insured, both domestic and int'l.

My advice to bianchigirl, stated less succinctly, was meant to be:
Your potential buyer in Germany wants you to ship via USPS i/o FedEx because it's cheaper, but shipping via USPS will take more time/effort than shipping via FedEx because you will have to cut your box down to meet their 108" minimum. In addition, your potential buyer in Germany is even trying to specify what size box you should be using, to minimize his shipping costs.

I think you should think about whether spending the extra time/effort to ship via USPS to satisfy this potential buyer is really worth it to you. Is this an item you can't sell in the US where shipping via FedEx is more competitive with USPS, so you can spend less time packing? Is it worth pricing the item a little cheaper for sale in the US, again saving packing time?

And, he/she sounds to me like a fairly fussy/demanding customer. I have not found much benefit trying to satisfy fussy/demanding customers. I'd steer clear of this one.

Hope I kicked this dead horse enough...