I recently came into a very nice B66 Champion Standard, and I'm curious what you guys know about these. Do you have any thoughts on their typical applications (touring?), and whether they came standard on any English bikes during their time of manufacture?

This one is stamped D65 under the backplate, which I understand dates it to sometime in the latter half of 1965. The underside of the saddle has also been branded with the letters F V G in a column, top to bottom, and an H forming a row with a V (see picture).

The saddle appears to be made of a thicker leather than most, it's nearly spot on 5mm measured around the edges with a set of dial calipers. The edge also seems to have been treated with something that looks like black paint. It does not have the appearance of ordinary saddle dressing.

What say you?

Oops - Title Should Read Brooks B66 Champion Standard... Not sure if I can edit this...

Yeah, I was wondering about the change in dimensions... This saddle is much narrower than the B66 of today: only 6-7/8" at its widest and nearly 11" long.

I find the new, shorter saddles look a little truncated on English 3 Speeds and was thinking about using this on a 1962 Raleigh Sports (the B72 is came with looks like a dry lakebed). Wasn't sure about the narrow width, however...

Does anyone know the width of the original B66 saddles that were sold with Raleigh 3-speeds up to 1961 (when they went to B72s)?

I don't know about those dimensions, but the B66 was standard on Raleigh Superbes in some model years and on the Raleigh Super Tourer in something like '74-75.

The B.66 is usually marked "Gent's Model." That's the super wide one Neal refers to.

"Champion" is the racing saddle shape. B.17's are labeled either "Champion Standard" or "Champion Narrow." What you have, obviously, is a saddle with the shape of a B.17 standard, but with the springs of a B.66.

I believe this model was later renamed "flyer."

I have a Raleigh DL-1 with a Brooks B-66 that is about 8" wide and 10 1/2" long, so perhaps Brooks changed the dimensions over time.

Have a look at this old Brooks catalogue from the V-CC library
1959 Brooks
It gives the dimensions and its B17 derivation as Rudi set out and was given the category for the "Sports Tourist"
The D refers to the fourth quarter of the year as the manufacturing date.

They were used by Raleigh (no surprise there!). Have a look through this very comprehensive catalogue for the saddles used. From the excellent threespeedhub online library.

Wow! What an excellent resource, thank you!

Well, this one happens to be a "Champion Standard"... apparently has the dimensions of a B17 but with added springs of a B66.

Isn't the Champion Flyer a single rail saddle?

Oh, yes, good point, I think you're right about that.

Once upon a time, saddles came with a clamp to hold it to a 7/8" seat pillar, and I think the B66 Champion dates to that time. Now seat posts with integrated clamp are pretty much standard, so two-railed saddles gradually become an anachronism.

I actually knew the answer to my own question since I have one. I just didn't want to come right out and say you're wrong. I will say you are wrong about the 7/8" saddle clamps. All Brooks saddles still come with them. Two and three-railed saddles are still being sold and can be mounted to posts with an integrated clamp with a Joe Breeze Seat Sandwich.

I do think the older saddles had thicker leather. But the tanning process has changed as well from oil tan to vegetable tan. I think rhm would know more about this. The new process seems to keep the color fast... meaning it doesn't bleed off onto your pants. Do the new saddles last as long... I don't know. Depends on how people treated/mistreated them. The posted pics looks like the saddle is in really good shape.