Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Flange Grandi or Flange Piccole?

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Flange Grandi or Flange Piccole?

Old 11-15-17, 01:50 PM
  #1  
Andy_K 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Andy_K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 13,223

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 393 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2308 Post(s)
Liked 1,031 Times in 519 Posts
Flange Grandi or Flange Piccole?

I'm building a new set of wheels for my 1973 DeRosa. I bought some NOS Campagnolo Epsilon tubular rims (yes, I know, they're too new). Now I just need to decide what hubs to pair them with. I've got a set of low flange NR hubs in great condition that I could use. I also have a high flange NR front hub and I could probably find a rear to match it. So I'm seeking opinions.


Which would you use and how strong would your preference be?
__________________
My Bikes
Andy_K is offline  
Old 11-15-17, 02:39 PM
  #2  
Ex Pres 
Cat 6
 
Ex Pres's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mountain Brook, AL
Posts: 7,417
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 468 Post(s)
Liked 105 Times in 74 Posts
I'd build them to match the rims, ie Piccole.

That way when you decide to go period correct on the wheelset (rims included), you'll still have this complete wheelset to use on another frame.
[I kind of made the same decision on my '74 Italvega]
__________________
72 Frejus, Holdsworth Record & special CNC / 74 Italvega NR (for sale) / c80 ?French? / 82 Raleigh Intl MkII / 83 Trek 620 / 84 Bruce Gordon Chinook / 85 Ron Cooper / 87 Centurion IM MV (for sale) / 03 Casati Dardo / 08 BF IRO / 09 Dogma FPX / 10 Vassago Fisticuff



Ex Pres is offline  
Old 11-15-17, 03:40 PM
  #3  
Andy_K 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Andy_K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 13,223

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 393 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2308 Post(s)
Liked 1,031 Times in 519 Posts
That's an interesting thought on keeping the rims and hubs period-matched.

This bike is giving me all kinds of things to think about in terms of period-correctness versus my other matchy-matchy preferences. I've got a set of wheels with red label Fiamme rims that I think may be period correct for the frame, but their laced to Gipiemme hubs. The Gipiemme hubs look good and I'm sure they'd be functionally satisfactory, but I really wanted to move everything to Campy. The rims I bought are from the mid-80's but they've got an orange stripe that matches the paint on the bike perfectly.

I kind of feel like with this bike getting things period correct holds a bit more weight than usual (though for me "usual" is "almost none"). On the other hand, rims are a consumable, right? Decisions, decisions....
__________________
My Bikes
Andy_K is offline  
Old 11-15-17, 03:47 PM
  #4  
gugie 
Bike Butcher of Portland
 
gugie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 9,471

Bikes: It's complicated.

Mentioned: 1033 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3409 Post(s)
Liked 1,916 Times in 938 Posts
Picolle - stylistic match.

As far as strength between the two goes, there are some who would argue vehemently for one vs the other. If there is a difference, it's so minor compared to so many other things as to be akin to religious dogma.
__________________
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
gugie is offline  
Old 11-15-17, 08:32 PM
  #5  
kroozer
vintage motor
 
kroozer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Tepic, Nayarit, Mexico
Posts: 1,419

Bikes: Automoto, Stallard, Rotrax, Jack Taylor, Atala, Lejeune, Motobecane, RIH, Zieleman, Raleigh, Messina, Brazzo, Davidson, Fisher, Kestrel

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 82 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 27 Times in 24 Posts
Rims are a consumable but they're also hi-viz, so I always try to find something that matches visually even if it's not a vintage part.
kroozer is offline  
Old 11-16-17, 12:29 AM
  #6  
Andy_K 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Andy_K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 13,223

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 393 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2308 Post(s)
Liked 1,031 Times in 519 Posts
I was really expecting a lot more support for the high flange hubs. Going with the low flange certainly would be the easier option. Hmmm....
__________________
My Bikes
Andy_K is offline  
Old 11-16-17, 09:09 AM
  #7  
rccardr 
aka: Dr. Cannondale
 
rccardr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,539

Bikes: Lots. Just...lots.

Mentioned: 184 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1555 Post(s)
Liked 1,002 Times in 468 Posts
Go with the setup that will make you want to ride them. Couple of years ago I built up a set of high flange hubs to new Pacenti wide polished box section rims. Great wheels. They have been run extensively on pavement as well as at L'Eroica CA and Cino Heroica. Nobody has ever mentioned the age disparity between the hubs and rims, in fact they'll gotten a lot of compliments.


I really dig the looks of the high flange hubs but wanted a super strong versatile freewheel wheelset that could take anything from 25's to 32's.
__________________
Hard at work in the Secret Underground Laboratory...
rccardr is offline  
Old 11-16-17, 09:27 AM
  #8  
rootboy 
Senior Member
 
rootboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wherever
Posts: 16,756
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 550 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 117 Times in 69 Posts
Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
I was really expecting a lot more support for the high flange hubs. Going with the low flange certainly would be the easier option. Hmmm....
OK. I logged in, which I rarely do anymore, just to give the high flange hubs some love. I much prefer the look of them, especially on a bike from that period.
But I have a set of low flange too, laced to Red Labels, and they're fine wheels.

How's that for non-commital? I sound like a politician....
rootboy is offline  
Old 11-16-17, 09:40 AM
  #9  
Bikerider007 
Senior Member
 
Bikerider007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,450

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 457 Post(s)
Liked 43 Times in 28 Posts
I vote high flange, Fiamme.
__________________
Bikerider007 is offline  
Old 11-17-17, 03:18 AM
  #10  
rhm
multimodal commuter
 
rhm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Posts: 19,697

Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...

Mentioned: 536 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1826 Post(s)
Liked 331 Times in 219 Posts
Originally Posted by Bikerider007 View Post
I vote high flange, Fiamme.
High flange.
rhm is offline  
Old 11-17-17, 05:25 AM
  #11  
jimmuller 
What??? Only 2 wheels?
 
jimmuller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boston-ish, MA
Posts: 13,369

Bikes: 73 Raleigh Carlton Gran Sport, 72 Peugeot UO-8, 82 Peugeot TH8, 87 Bianchi Brava, 76? Masi Grand Criterium, 87 Centurion Ironman Expert, 74 Motobecane Champion Team, 86 & 77 Gazelle champion mondial, 81? Grandis, 82? Tommasini, 83 Peugeot PF10

Mentioned: 184 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1202 Post(s)
Liked 367 Times in 167 Posts
Originally Posted by rccardr View Post
... Nobody has ever mentioned the age disparity between the hubs and rims, in fact they'll gotten a lot of compliments.
I suspect only us codgers ever notice details like that.

I'd have to see the bike and the hubs and rims. But I bet if you build them well strength won't be an issue.
__________________
Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
jimmuller is offline  
Old 11-17-17, 05:33 AM
  #12  
randyjawa 
Senior Member
 
randyjawa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada - burrrrr!
Posts: 10,920

Bikes: 1958 Rabeneick 120D, 1968 Legnano Gran Premio, 196? Torpado Professional, 2000 Marinoni Piuma

Mentioned: 187 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1131 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 969 Times in 587 Posts
From a functional point of view, it really does not matter all that much, in my opinion. But I do love the look of high flange hubs and, given the choice, would go high flange every time, as is the case on most of my vintage steeds, including my PX10E...

__________________
"98% of the bikes I buy are projects".
randyjawa is offline  
Old 11-17-17, 07:52 AM
  #13  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 16,132
Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1966 Post(s)
Liked 803 Times in 623 Posts
The Pro Peloton that year was mainly low flange.
It is a Pro Bike, low flange.

On bikes with half chrome forks and stays...High Flange. Styling.
repechage is offline  
Old 11-17-17, 08:53 AM
  #14  
jimmuller 
What??? Only 2 wheels?
 
jimmuller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boston-ish, MA
Posts: 13,369

Bikes: 73 Raleigh Carlton Gran Sport, 72 Peugeot UO-8, 82 Peugeot TH8, 87 Bianchi Brava, 76? Masi Grand Criterium, 87 Centurion Ironman Expert, 74 Motobecane Champion Team, 86 & 77 Gazelle champion mondial, 81? Grandis, 82? Tommasini, 83 Peugeot PF10

Mentioned: 184 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1202 Post(s)
Liked 367 Times in 167 Posts
When I bought my first lightweight bike way back in the tail end of last millennium, before the 3/4ths point of last century, the affordable Peugeots were the UO-8 and the even more affordable AO-8. Their catalogs and every published thing I could find seemed to proclaim proudly that the UO-8 had the desirable high-flange hubs and the AO-8 had the desirable low-flange hubs. I never did sort out the difference other than one was high and the other low. Okay, those low-flange hubs had nutted axles, but it was a feature seemingly not related to the flange size.

I saw almost no high-performance bikes at the time. Years later and transplanted to a different city and region I began to see nicer bikes. They invariably had low-flange hubs so I associate(d) low-flange with performance. Not that it made any difference, but was just a visual association. Even later I began to see high-flange high-performance hubs, invariably on vintage'y 70's bikes. So I guess it's just as style thing, and perhaps temporal feature too.

So go with what looks right to you. If that doesn't settle the question, go with what looks good (which isn't necessarily the same was what looks right). If that doesn't settle the question, go with what you already or is least expensive.
__________________
Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
jimmuller is offline  
Old 11-17-17, 12:47 PM
  #15  
ThermionicScott 
working on my sandal tan
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 20,755

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)

Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3032 Post(s)
Liked 1,092 Times in 746 Posts
Originally Posted by rccardr View Post
Go with the setup that will make you want to ride them. Couple of years ago I built up a set of high flange hubs to new Pacenti wide polished box section rims. Great wheels. They have been run extensively on pavement as well as at L'Eroica CA and Cino Heroica. Nobody has ever mentioned the age disparity between the hubs and rims, in fact they'll gotten a lot of compliments.


I really dig the looks of the high flange hubs but wanted a super strong versatile freewheel wheelset that could take anything from 25's to 32's.
Pacenti thinks it's a good look, too.

__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline  
Old 11-17-17, 03:24 PM
  #16  
Andy_K 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Andy_K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 13,223

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 393 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2308 Post(s)
Liked 1,031 Times in 519 Posts
Originally Posted by jimmuller View Post
So go with what looks right to you. If that doesn't settle the question, go with what looks good (which isn't necessarily the same was what looks right). If that doesn't settle the question, go with what you already or is least expensive.
This is pretty solid advice. I thought just having the discussion would help me figure out what I actually wanted, like when you flip a coin and while it's in the air you realize which way you're hoping it will come down. Not this time, though. I think I've firmly decided which way I wanted to go four or five different times as I read through this thread. If I go with low flange I can save myself the trouble of hoping something I get on eBay is as good as it looks. That's today's decision. Maybe I should take measurements and order spokes before I change my mind again.
__________________
My Bikes
Andy_K is offline  
Old 11-17-17, 05:53 PM
  #17  
Narhay
Senior Member
 
Narhay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 3,595
Mentioned: 114 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 903 Post(s)
Liked 418 Times in 250 Posts
Go low flange so that there are more high flanges for the rest of us.
Narhay is offline  
Old 11-17-17, 06:01 PM
  #18  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,657
Mentioned: 569 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4054 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,602 Times in 1,149 Posts
I'd go with low flange. They're appropriate for high grade, lightweight, road bicycles of all eras. High flange, on the other hand, has a narrower range of application.

However, I have been somewhat influenced on this matter. When I first became seriously involved in cycling, all the top models from the mass manufacturers came equipped with high flange hubs. Conversely, the first examples that I saw from small volume craftsmen like Colnago, Cinelli, De Rosa and Masi, all had low flange hubs. It left a subliminal impression at the time, that low flange hubs were just a little more prestigious.
T-Mar is offline  
Old 11-17-17, 07:48 PM
  #19  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 16,132
Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1966 Post(s)
Liked 803 Times in 623 Posts
Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
I'd go with low flange. They're appropriate for high grade, lightweight, road bicycles of all eras. High flange, on the other hand, has a narrower range of application.

However, I have been somewhat influenced on this matter. When I first became seriously involved in cycling, all the top models from the mass manufacturers came equipped with high flange hubs. Conversely, the first examples that I saw from small volume craftsmen like Colnago, Cinelli, De Rosa and Masi, all had low flange hubs. It left a subliminal impression at the time, that low flange hubs were just a little more prestigious.
Yes, that was how it was. For a short period, Low flange hubs were less expensive in the 70's also…
My first road bike had Campagnolo Record High Flange, first race wheels also as I found a pair of hubs for $32.50, price won the day. Money was very dear. After I got a bike shop job, low flange for race wheels save for the track and a high flange pair of Nuovo Tipos I won in a race.
Then came 32 hole… felt like 36's with less weight and more cool factor.
repechage is offline  
Old 11-17-17, 10:41 PM
  #20  
Jeff Wills
Insane Bicycle Mechanic
 
Jeff Wills's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: other Vancouver
Posts: 9,561
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 684 Post(s)
Liked 332 Times in 221 Posts
Split the difference.

__________________
Jeff Wills

Comcast nuked my web page. It will return soon..
Jeff Wills is offline  
Old 11-18-17, 08:52 AM
  #21  
crandress 
Crapmaster
 
crandress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 1,214

Bikes: 1953 Terrot, 1980 Mercian Vincitore, Bridgestone MB3, Atala Corsa GS, Bottecchia Gran Turismo, Raleigh Olympian

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 329 Post(s)
Liked 51 Times in 35 Posts
Why would you even consider low flange hubs, duh!! Honestly, I just love the look of the high flange hubs so I would probably do that every time, like @randyjawa for a classic steel frame bike.
__________________
Chris

Crapmaster Emeritus
crandress is offline  
Old 11-18-17, 09:24 AM
  #22  
Slightspeed
Senior Member
 
Slightspeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 2,232

Bikes: 1964 Legnano Roma Olympiade, 1973 Raleigh Super Course, 1978 Raleigh Super Course, 1978 Peugeot PR10, 2002 Specialized Allez, 2007 Specialized Roubaix, 2013 Culprit Croz Blade

Mentioned: 65 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 729 Post(s)
Liked 739 Times in 394 Posts
I would go with whichever hubs the bike came with. Rims are replaceable items, so if they aren't exactly a match, oh well. That being said, I run high flange on both of my vintage bikes, and love the look. Be careful, though. I got a wheelset from a friend when building my Super Course. After around 1200 miles, while cleaning, I found two cracks in the web between the holes on the flange on the rear. The bike rode fine, no wheel wobble, but I found a hub on ebay and had it respoked. All good now.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
2017-10-11 14.35.50.jpg (574.0 KB, 43 views)
File Type: jpg
2017-11-18 07.31.45.jpg (660.7 KB, 41 views)

Last edited by Slightspeed; 11-18-17 at 12:11 PM.
Slightspeed is offline  
Old 11-18-17, 11:19 AM
  #23  
The Golden Boy 
Extraordinary Magnitude
 
The Golden Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Waukesha WI
Posts: 12,806

Bikes: 1978 Trek TX700; 1978/79 Trek 736; 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP; 1985 Trek 620; 1985 Trek 720; 1986 Trek 400 Elance; 1987 Schwinn High Sierra; 1990 Miyata 1000LT

Mentioned: 77 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2277 Post(s)
Liked 787 Times in 481 Posts
Polished high flange!

__________________
*Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Person Of The Year" Award*

Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!

"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
The Golden Boy is offline  
Old 11-18-17, 11:34 AM
  #24  
fietsbob
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,599

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,322 Times in 832 Posts
Originally Posted by Jeff Wills View Post
Split the difference.

I have a 36 hole <C> High Lo wheel set I built in the mid 70's, 3 X to high, 4X to the low side.. Low flange 3X front..



fietsbob is offline  
Old 11-18-17, 12:15 PM
  #25  
Insidious C. 
Crash Test Dummy
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: PNW
Posts: 1,343

Bikes: One of everything and three of everything French

Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 349 Post(s)
Liked 181 Times in 111 Posts
De Rosa + low flange ftw. On certain other bikes high flange look better to me.
__________________
I.C.
Insidious C. is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.