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Old 12-16-17, 09:54 AM
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Sizing

I've included this here but if there is a better location could a moderator please redirect?

This year I got a Dave Moulton Fuso Lux and it is an amazing bike and no I don't want to sell it. Having said that it's a bit small and any more than 5 miles and I'm cramping. I am 6'2" tall and it's a 59cm (23 inch) frame and I usually ride a 63cm (25 inch frame). I spoke to folks at the Co-op and they said I could change things so it would fit and that simply changing the stem and or seat post could solve the problem. They said that bikes now come in S, M, L, XL and XXL sizing to save manufacturing costs and cut down on the amount of frame sizes being made.

I had hoped that adding a longer seat post so I could raise the seat 1-2 inches would make it easier on my legs but I believe that the real issue is the stem and that I need not only to raise it an inch or two, I'd also like to move the bars forward another inch.

Rather than sort through the bins at the coop for a stem and/or a seat post that fits and end up with badly beat components, I'd like to buy new ones that match the bike.

My questions are
1) Can simply replacing these components make that much of a difference?
2) Is my plan realistic and if so can anyone recommend such a stem

Lastly, I had considered going for shorter cranks but this could be start of some seriously expensive expermenation.
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Old 12-16-17, 10:43 AM
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This is likely your best bet for the stem.

Theres a definite move towards shorter cranks, I'm using them because of limitations imposed by surgery. I like the power I can get from them as an ex-masher rider but the problem is the short cranks lift your centre of gravity so you feel like you're not sitting in the bike, rather more on it. A redesigned frame with a lower BB would help.

If you want to try the short cranks cheaply, the best bang is the Stronglight Impact compact double which also comes in a junior model with very short lenght, 130 - 155mm. The triple model goes down to 160mm
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Old 12-16-17, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by WGB
I've included this here but if there is a better location could a moderator please redirect?

This year I got a Dave Moulton Fuso Lux and it is an amazing bike and no I don't want to sell it. Having said that it's a bit small and any more than 5 miles and I'm cramping. I am 6'2" tall and it's a 59cm (23 inch) frame and I usually ride a 63cm (25 inch frame). I spoke to folks at the Co-op and they said I could change things so it would fit and that simply changing the stem and or seat post could solve the problem. They said that bikes now come in S, M, L, XL and XXL sizing to save manufacturing costs and cut down on the amount of frame sizes being made.

I had hoped that adding a longer seat post so I could raise the seat 1-2 inches would make it easier on my legs but I believe that the real issue is the stem and that I need not only to raise it an inch or two, I'd also like to move the bars forward another inch.

Rather than sort through the bins at the coop for a stem and/or a seat post that fits and end up with badly beat components, I'd like to buy new ones that match the bike.

My questions are
1) Can simply replacing these components make that much of a difference?
2) Is my plan realistic and if so can anyone recommend such a stem

Lastly, I had considered going for shorter cranks but this could be start of some seriously expensive expermenation.
That is a beautiful bike! Definitely achievable to get it fitted for you perfectly.

Could you do us a favor and give us a center to center measurement on your top tube & your stem? If I was going to guess, I’d say that your stem is a 12 or 13cm Cinelli, Nitto or 3T. At 6’2”, a 59 cm bike is more contemporary for fitting your size compared with a 25” frame. Basically, not knowing your specific build (normal torso? Average leg length for your height?) I would think the Fuso if it is “off the shelf” geometry and not some oddball custom, should be blissful for you.

If you do try to play around with the stem you could always try a 5 degree upward rise quill stem. Salsa, Ritchey & ITM all made super strong chromoly stems during the era of your bike. To my eye they can look really good for stretching out a bike for a good fit with 26.0 handlebars of your choice. To each his own but to me those super high Nitto Technomic stems look Freddish and dreadful, sorry.

Honestly though, that cockpit in the picture has good proportions to my eye. Next up I would say there is a fair amount of wiggle room you could gain by going with a longer seatpost, or one with a tad more setback. I would not hesitate to put a Chinese made, titanium seatpost with a graceful setback on there. These are on eBay for under $100 and appear to be the ticket for special builds. The fact that the ti material dampens vibration is another bonus, as is the low weight. You could even play around with a saddle with lots of fore/aft adjustability (Fizik Arione comes to mind here - I need the Antares myself but it is almost as good for this).

Not sure about your torso/arm length but I’ve found that by exploring a more stretched out position, you can actually LOWER the saddle slightly which engages slightly different muscles in your feet, hamstrings, etc... which improves power under certain conditions such as climbing. This is fitting more by the “Greg “Lemond method” and to me, it’s worth experimenting with.

Good luck!

Last edited by masi61; 12-16-17 at 10:49 AM.
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Old 12-16-17, 10:51 AM
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Another question. What crank length does this bike currently have? At your height, I would think 175’s would be your size.
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Old 12-16-17, 11:06 AM
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Honestly, if you need another 1.5 or 2 inches of reach, I'm not sure you'll be able to get this to work w/o some clown bike kludge. Just eyeballing without measurements, it looks like your stem is already maxed out at 120 or 130mm and sits up about as high as a Technomic. You could probably get handlebars with more reach and a seatpost with more setback but I would start with careful measurement of a bike that fits and see if you can achieve that same fit on the Fuso before you spend money. It's not the end of the world to move a frame along.
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Old 12-16-17, 11:10 AM
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For working out your options with different stem choices, this tool was recently pointed out on a different C&V thread that was discussion various Nitto stems to get the bars higher. That thread may be a good starting point for you.

At minimum, plug your current stem measurements in to the tool, and work out what kind of stem geometry (angle, length, height) would get you toward your goal.

Oh, and nice bike.
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Old 12-16-17, 11:24 AM
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I'm going to go a little against the tide here and say that you should move on. I don't agree with your coop. Yes, you could put a long seatpost and a technomic stem on it, but it will never feel quite balanced. IMO level top tube bikes should be fitted according to the standards of the time. Also, it looks like the stem is already pretty long, like a 12 or something. 13cm is the usual limit there. What length is that top tube? Looks short. You could use a setback seatpost but then you start messing with the pedaling efficiency/ergonomics. BTW I'm also 6'2" and normally ride a 25". I can and did ride a 24" for an aggressive race fit (too old for that now), but 23" would just be wrong.

For a commuter, I think it would be OK to refit this for a larger person, but for a real roadie bike I think it's sub optimal.

If you do end up putting a longer stem and seatpost, do make sure to get proper extension into the tubes. Raising these above max extension is a good way to ruin a frame.
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Old 12-16-17, 11:29 AM
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BTW and IMO the stem to get for a bike of that quality is the Nitto tall technomic deluxe. Sold by rivendell as the Tallux. I assume others sell it also. Not sure what the official name is.
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Old 12-16-17, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv
... looks like your stem is already maxed out at 120 or 130mm and sits up about as high as a Technomic...
If I had to bet money i'd say that stem's even longer; 140mm. That's about as long as I've ever seen.

But I'm going through the same thing on a too-small Cannondale I recent picked up. My problem is finding a long seat post with enough setback. And like the OP, I'm starting to question is the financial investment is going to make sense trying to stretch this thing out.
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Old 12-16-17, 12:48 PM
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I agree with the above posts, looks like you've gone about as far as you can with stem and seat post changes. I hated to swap out the beautiful Ambrosio stem from my '64 Legnano for a Nitto, but it worked out pretty well. Higher and a little longer in reach.

Back in the day there was less me and more bike. I've had the bike 53 years. Time for you to probably swap frames. With me it was sentimental value, and the fit wasn't that far off. I got lucky a few months ago and came across a '73 Raleigh Super Course that fits like a custom made frame (bottom picture). They are out there, you might get lucky. I'm right at 6 ft, the Legnano is 56cm, and the Raleigh is 23 1/2 inches. I've never given crank arm length much thought, but these are both 170s, though the top Campy crank arm looks longer because it's thinner than the Sugino below.
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Old 12-16-17, 01:43 PM
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I’d move on too. Let the proceeds from this bike pay for one your size. You are likely two sizes off. If it was just one size I’d try adjusting,

6-2 and 23 inch frame is way off. Measure TT center to center (center of ST to center of HT). A lot of vintage bikes are square: TT ctc really close to ST.

The good news if you step up to the 25 inch size, you should find more interesting stuff at lower prices. Raleigh made a lot of 25 1/2 inch frame sized bikes.

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Old 12-16-17, 01:50 PM
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Wow

A lot of knowledge in a very short time!!!

First in response to length questions and I hope my measurements and terms are ok.

I measured the exposed portion of the stem only ( I couldn't find the Allen key to remove stem completely). The stem measured 70mm from top of the spacers to top of stem (exposed portion - not counting what is in head tube). Since only 70mm are showing shouldn't there be enough room to add a taller stem????

Stem then extends 140mm forward from top corner of stem to center of bars.

Head tube is 190mm from where forks join the head tube to the bottom of spacers

Top tube is 550mm measured from where top tube joins seat post to where top tube joins head tube.

Seat post is 145mm long from top of seat tube to top of seat post (again exposed portion only, not counting what is in tube)

Actual seat tube is 59cm measured from center bottom bracket to center top of seat tube (confirmed through Dave Moulton and on his registry as a 59cm.

Cranks are indeed 175mm.

Lastly all parts are Dura Ace expect stem which is 3TTT.

PS I am not ignoring the advice that says move on, just going down with a fight. Hoping to keep it but if I have to move it I will.

Last edited by WGB; 12-16-17 at 01:53 PM. Reason: Add sentence
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Old 12-16-17, 02:54 PM
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You are maxed out with horizontal dimension of your stem. You can get a Technomic and have more vertical but that will decrease your reach, opposite of what you want. Sorry....
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Old 12-16-17, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by WGB
A lot of knowledge in a very short time!!!

First in response to length questions and I hope my measurements and terms are ok.

I measured the exposed portion of the stem only ( I couldn't find the Allen key to remove stem completely). The stem measured 70mm from top of the spacers to top of stem (exposed portion - not counting what is in head tube). Since only 70mm are showing shouldn't there be enough room to add a taller stem????

Stem then extends 140mm forward from top corner of stem to center of bars.

Head tube is 190mm from where forks join the head tube to the bottom of spacers

Top tube is 550mm measured from where top tube joins seat post to where top tube joins head tube.

Seat post is 145mm long from top of seat tube to top of seat post (again exposed portion only, not counting what is in tube)

Actual seat tube is 59cm measured from center bottom bracket to center top of seat tube (confirmed through Dave Moulton and on his registry as a 59cm.

Cranks are indeed 175mm.

Lastly all parts are Dura Ace expect stem which is 3TTT.

PS I am not ignoring the advice that says move on, just going down with a fight. Hoping to keep it but if I have to move it I will.
Glad you’re keeping it. The top tube does sound short.
Can you state again what exactly isn’t fitting well with this bike?
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Old 12-16-17, 04:48 PM
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What is short

I feel when I ride that I am crouched or tucked in too far. I feel I need more reach and my arms are tucked into close.
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Old 12-16-17, 05:09 PM
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What’s the top tube length? It’s all about the top tube, you already have a tiller up front, you need some set back. Find a seat post with some set back that suits your torso length. What’s cramping, legs, back or neck?

Like Fletch said, it’s all ball bearings these days.
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Old 12-16-17, 05:14 PM
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It's a great looking bike, from what I can tell. And I'd love to have a Dave Moulton frame someday. But I think it's just too small.
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Old 12-16-17, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by WGB
I feel when I ride that I am crouched or tucked in too far. I feel I need more reach and my arms are tucked into close.
fwiw... I'm 6 feet even, and generally ride a bike closer to 61 or 62cm. (24 1/2 center to top). A 58cm top tube works pretty well for me, so I am not surprised that the Fuso seems too close.

No harm in experimenting, but it's probably not a bad idea to start looking for something bigger.


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Old 12-16-17, 05:15 PM
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Maybe a set of wide bullhorn bars would do the trick?

Though, and I'm really out of my element here, isn't it better for bike handling to have one's weight more over the rear wheel than the front? Something like 60/40?
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Old 12-16-17, 05:30 PM
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OK I see above the top tube is 55. I’m 6’2” with a 34 inch inseam, I think the Competitive Cyclist calculator recommended a frame with around a 56 top tube for me depending on the fit I chose. If you can stand the non vintage look of a set back post a couple cm will do ya. On my modern bikes I went with a longer top tube of 57.5 and 58 and use straight seat posts. Is your seat back all the way, if not move it back as far as you can to see if it feels better and then buy an appropriate seat post to fit accordingly.
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Old 12-16-17, 06:42 PM
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Looking at your pic OP, I think you should sell the bike and buy on that fits. Probably not what you wanted to hear, and I realize a DM would be hard to replace, but I'm a big believer in a bike fitting right. Yours looks like it's definitely too small, and long stems and seatposts wont change that, imho.
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Old 12-16-17, 09:47 PM
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I'm 6'1" with normal (?) proportions and generally ride 59 - 62cm frames. Preference is for 58cm top tubes with 12cm stem. I have a bike that is 56.75cm tope tube with a 13cm stem that works.


On your frame the head tube is 19.0cm? That's plenty tall for a big guy. You need more saddle set-back and the 14cm stem. With 'normal' flexibility you should be OK. Maybe.


edit: maybe not so flexible now that I see the stem raised. How about bars with more reach? AND the setback seatpost.
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Old 12-16-17, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by WGB
...


PS I am not ignoring the advice that says move on, just going down with a fight. Hoping to keep it but if I have to move it I will.
Yup... back to your first post, going with shorter cranks would actually exacerbate the problem as you'd need to raise the seat by as many millimeters as you'd shorten the crank arms or your leg extension would be off. I'm guessing you'd like to end up with what you could get to with a 61 endurance (comfort) frame and if so, a 59 may always be too small for you no matter what you try...
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Old 12-17-17, 09:16 AM
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If your Raleigh fits you; I quickly assess a frame to see if I can ride it comfortably by lining a good fitting frame up with the new one and eyeball the changes at the three contact points, bars, seat, pedals. If a 150cm stem, 180 or 160 crank, etc. is required it's a not worth the trouble to try.
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Old 12-17-17, 09:55 AM
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Move on - You're already maxed out in several dimensions.

Believe me, l've been there. The one thing I've learned about fit is that a correctly sized frame should be a dream to set up w/o resorting to any compromises or kluges.

I'll take a properly fitting ordinary bike over an ill-fitting dream bike all day long.

Last edited by thinktubes; 12-17-17 at 09:58 AM.
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