Fork conversion from threadless to threaded?
03-13-18 | 07:42 PM
#26
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From: Washington County, Vermont, USA
Bikes: 1966 Dawes Double Blue, 1976 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1975 Raleigh Sprite 27, 1980 Univega Viva Sport, 1971 Gitane Tour de France, 1984 Lotus Classique, 1976 Motobecane Grand Record
From an engineering standpoint, a system which requires less maintenance by design is always better than a system that needs maintenance, no matter the willingness of the rider to do said maintenance (most bike riders aren't dedicated nutheads like ourselves 
).
Star nuts are not consumable parts and are not meant to break. The only time I've seen them break is when the user doesn't understand that they are there to simply eliminate play in the bearings, and not to be tightened until the bolt can turn anymore. If this concept is understood, changing stems or adjusting spacer/stem position is a 2 minute job, I have done it on the road before and it is just as quick and easy as in the shop.
I think a lot of C&V enthusiasts like working on their bikes and doing maintenance on old parts because they find them beautiful, engrossing, and fun. And in many cases these parts are just what we're used to. Acknowledging that habit, aesthetic appreciation, and mechanical curiosity can contribute to the love of a part separate from its design superiority or inferiority to modern parts is an exercise I think we all would benefit from. In other words, rather than scrambling to come up with ways in which threaded is better than threadless, and spouting off conspiracies on how the bike companies are just trying to get us to buy the newest thing, we should just say "I like C&V parts, and that's it."
).Star nuts are not consumable parts and are not meant to break. The only time I've seen them break is when the user doesn't understand that they are there to simply eliminate play in the bearings, and not to be tightened until the bolt can turn anymore. If this concept is understood, changing stems or adjusting spacer/stem position is a 2 minute job, I have done it on the road before and it is just as quick and easy as in the shop.
I think a lot of C&V enthusiasts like working on their bikes and doing maintenance on old parts because they find them beautiful, engrossing, and fun. And in many cases these parts are just what we're used to. Acknowledging that habit, aesthetic appreciation, and mechanical curiosity can contribute to the love of a part separate from its design superiority or inferiority to modern parts is an exercise I think we all would benefit from. In other words, rather than scrambling to come up with ways in which threaded is better than threadless, and spouting off conspiracies on how the bike companies are just trying to get us to buy the newest thing, we should just say "I like C&V parts, and that's it."
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03-13-18 | 10:18 PM
#27
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Bikes: A steel framed 26" off road tourer from a manufacturer who thinks they are cool. Giant Anthem. Trek 720 Multiroad pub bike. 10 kids bikes all under 20". Assorted waifs and unfinished projects.
03-13-18 | 11:08 PM
#28
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The reduction in labour and warehousing costs associated with threadless front end allows the average bicycle buyer, who rarely puts tools to their bikes, a better quality bike for the same amount of money. for those of us who do our own work, both are fine aren't they?
03-14-18 | 12:10 AM
#29
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Bikes: 61 Bianchi Specialissima 71 Peugeot G50 7? P'geot PX10 74 Raleigh GranSport 75 P'geot UO8 78? Raleigh Team Pro 82 P'geot PSV 86 P'geot PX 91 Bridgestone MB0 92 B'stone XO1 97 Rans VRex 92 Cannondale R1000 94 B'stone MB5 97 Vitus 997
03-14-18 | 12:15 AM
#30
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From: Portland OR
Bikes: 61 Bianchi Specialissima 71 Peugeot G50 7? P'geot PX10 74 Raleigh GranSport 75 P'geot UO8 78? Raleigh Team Pro 82 P'geot PSV 86 P'geot PX 91 Bridgestone MB0 92 B'stone XO1 97 Rans VRex 92 Cannondale R1000 94 B'stone MB5 97 Vitus 997
The other disadvantage of a threadless stem is the stack of spacers sticking above the stem, when the stem is in a low position. Its about as sleek and elegant as a clunky set of stem shifters sticking up in the wind. Of course you can cut the steerer, but then the stem is no longer adjustable.
With a threaded / quill, the stem looks just as sleek when raised as when lowered.
With a threaded / quill, the stem looks just as sleek when raised as when lowered.
03-14-18 | 06:45 AM
#31
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From: Washington County, Vermont, USA
Bikes: 1966 Dawes Double Blue, 1976 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1975 Raleigh Sprite 27, 1980 Univega Viva Sport, 1971 Gitane Tour de France, 1984 Lotus Classique, 1976 Motobecane Grand Record
I've never bought a new bike with a threadless stem--just that one Surly frame, which came with an uncut steerer--so this is an honest question: when you buy a new bike from a shop, do they start with an uncut steerer which they cut to any length you request, or do they provide a precut and preassembled steerer in a length that the manufacturer has decided will suit most riders for that frame size? Or does it depend on the shop?
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03-14-18 | 08:47 AM
#32
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From: Senoia, GA
Bikes: '71 Raleigh Professional MK III; '71 Raleigh Pro Track; '88 Bianchi Campione d'Ialia; 2016 Litespeed T5 Gravel; 2012 Cool Fixie; 2017 Bottecchia Leggendaria; 2018 Bottecchia Leggendaria;2008 Electra Townie
You can get a Soma Quill-inator. Costs about $80. Thta makes it possible to slap a quill stem on a threadless fork.
03-14-18 | 09:21 AM
#33
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Bikes: Indeed!
03-14-18 | 10:29 AM
#34
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From: Washington County, Vermont, USA
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Also pointless in my application, since it doesn't shorten the steerer by very much.
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03-14-18 | 11:30 AM
#35
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Bikes: 78 Masi Criterium, 68 PX10, 2016 Mercian King of Mercia, Rivendell Clem Smith Jr
I've never bought a new bike with a threadless stem--just that one Surly frame, which came with an uncut steerer--so this is an honest question: when you buy a new bike from a shop, do they start with an uncut steerer which they cut to any length you request, or do they provide a precut and preassembled steerer in a length that the manufacturer has decided will suit most riders for that frame size? Or does it depend on the shop?
I quit working in shops in the very early days of threadless steer tubes. At that time you had to cut them. If you buy a custom frame, it will most likely come with an uncut steerer. Mine did.
IMO whatever your issue is, it's probably going to be easier to solve with a different stem or whatever than by sweating in a new steer tube. Also, I can't imagine 1 1/8" threaded headsets and stems will be very easy to come by. They only existed for a few years -- a short blip in time.
As long as everyone is weighing in, my preference is for threadless. It's stronger, lighter and better.
I do like the adjustability of the old quill stems though. It was useful for me to have a quill stem on my Rivendell Clem, since I hadn't ridden north road type bars for any great distance since I was like 12. It helped me dial it in. For road bikes, I kind of know my position, and am not inclined to change it.
03-14-18 | 12:31 PM
#36
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Bikes: It's complicated.
I really have no idea how it is now. I'd guess they come precut nowadays (?), as it's no great hassle to cut them to length in a factory, and it would eliminate the possibility of the bike shop messing it up.
I quit working in shops in the very early days of threadless steer tubes. At that time you had to cut them. If you buy a custom frame, it will most likely come with an uncut steerer. Mine did.
IMO whatever your issue is, it's probably going to be easier to solve with a different stem or whatever than by sweating in a new steer tube. Also, I can't imagine 1 1/8" threaded headsets and stems will be very easy to come by. They only existed for a few years -- a short blip in time.
As long as everyone is weighing in, my preference is for threadless. It's stronger, lighter and better. I do like the adjustability of the old quill stems though. It was useful for me to have a quill stem on my Rivendell Clem, since I hadn't ridden north road type bars for any great distance since I was like 12. It helped me dial it in. For road bikes, I kind of know my position, and am not inclined to change it.
I quit working in shops in the very early days of threadless steer tubes. At that time you had to cut them. If you buy a custom frame, it will most likely come with an uncut steerer. Mine did.
IMO whatever your issue is, it's probably going to be easier to solve with a different stem or whatever than by sweating in a new steer tube. Also, I can't imagine 1 1/8" threaded headsets and stems will be very easy to come by. They only existed for a few years -- a short blip in time.
As long as everyone is weighing in, my preference is for threadless. It's stronger, lighter and better.
I do like the adjustability of the old quill stems though. It was useful for me to have a quill stem on my Rivendell Clem, since I hadn't ridden north road type bars for any great distance since I was like 12. It helped me dial it in. For road bikes, I kind of know my position, and am not inclined to change it.
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If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
03-14-18 | 12:48 PM
#38
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Bikes: 78 Masi Criterium, 68 PX10, 2016 Mercian King of Mercia, Rivendell Clem Smith Jr
Just to be thorough, I fully admit that these are completely hideous, but there is such a thing as an adjustable threadless stem.
But I agree, for a touring/rinko bike, yeah, for sure quill is the most elegant and the most functional. A replacement threaded steer tube for a LHT is going to be beefy enough that the chance of any potential downside is essentially nil.
Since no one mentioned it, I still think that Rene Herse stems were beautiful. They were the original threadless stem.
(sort of)
Last edited by Salamandrine; 03-14-18 at 01:08 PM.
03-14-18 | 12:52 PM
#39
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Not my picture, but looks a lot like the one or two system 3? stems that I have in my parts box. Only 2 bolts on the faceplate, I'm not sure if that was a hazard or not.
I do wish there were attractive quill stems with removable faceplates in more sizes/styles that were easily available.
03-14-18 | 01:09 PM
#40
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From: Pacific Northwest
Bikes: ‘87 Marinoni SLX Sports Tourer, ‘79 Miyata 912 by Gugificazione
FWIW, Jeff Lyon offers forks, in either the higher finish Lyonsport, or very nice L’Avecaise versions.
https://www.lyonsport.com/frames-0
https://www.lyonsport.com/frames-0
03-14-18 | 01:10 PM
#41
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From: Portland, OR
Bikes: It's complicated.
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If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
03-14-18 | 01:36 PM
#42
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From: Coeur d' Alene
Bikes: 3 Chinese Gas Pipe Nerdcycles and 2 Chicago Electroforged Boat Anchors
When you say stem, I'm assuming you mean steerer. I haven't measured every threadless steerer made, but everyone that I have measured has the same ID/OD as a threaded. ~.0625" wall.
03-14-18 | 02:10 PM
#44
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03-14-18 | 02:24 PM
#45
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the Larry Vs Harry cargo bikes use them, as a fleet shared bike TECHNICAL INFO - Larry Vs. Harry
03-14-18 | 02:30 PM
#46
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From: Washington County, Vermont, USA
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That's probably going to be easier than getting the old one modified. Not to hijack the thread, but I'd be happy for any leads to frame builders that would be be willing to take on a job like this. I don't need a super-elegant custom job--just a good-quality lugged fork (the tubing is plain old 4130 steel, I think) that duplicates the geometry of the original.
This might be nuts, but as a guy who works closely with machine shops, it seems to me that it might also be possible to make some sort of double-ended expandable internal plug fitting that would allow one to cut off a threaded steerer a couple of inches above the fork, and mechanically fasten on a threaded steerer from there upward.
That would not be a trivial design project, and it would have to be executed with precision, given that the cost of screwing it up could be very high. A custom fork is probably a better idea all around.
This might be nuts, but as a guy who works closely with machine shops, it seems to me that it might also be possible to make some sort of double-ended expandable internal plug fitting that would allow one to cut off a threaded steerer a couple of inches above the fork, and mechanically fasten on a threaded steerer from there upward.
That would not be a trivial design project, and it would have to be executed with precision, given that the cost of screwing it up could be very high. A custom fork is probably a better idea all around.
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"Progress might have been all right once, but it has gone on too long."
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--Ogden Nash
Last edited by jonwvara; 03-14-18 at 03:14 PM.
03-14-18 | 02:47 PM
#47
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long list of bike business links via UBI bikeschool.com
One may be able to machine a steerer tube which was thick wall 7/8" ID for most common quill stems, with a 1.125" OD..
sleeve inside, effectively butted .. typical OD steerer, 1" ID, 1/16" tube wall, for 9/8" ... 1/8" tube wall for 7/8 inside, 9/8" outside
rolling threads displaces metal rather than cutting it, thats how spokes are threaded.
....
One may be able to machine a steerer tube which was thick wall 7/8" ID for most common quill stems, with a 1.125" OD..
sleeve inside, effectively butted .. typical OD steerer, 1" ID, 1/16" tube wall, for 9/8" ... 1/8" tube wall for 7/8 inside, 9/8" outside
rolling threads displaces metal rather than cutting it, thats how spokes are threaded.
....
Last edited by fietsbob; 03-14-18 at 03:03 PM.
03-14-18 | 03:48 PM
#48
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From: Down Under
Bikes: A steel framed 26" off road tourer from a manufacturer who thinks they are cool. Giant Anthem. Trek 720 Multiroad pub bike. 10 kids bikes all under 20". Assorted waifs and unfinished projects.
I've never measured one, it's just what I remember being told, and took it as gospel....
03-14-18 | 04:52 PM
#50
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I think the biggest issue with threading an unthreaded steerer is getting the die started straight. If you want to experiment a guy has a couple 1-1/8" threading dies on ebay super cheap right now, no pilots or handle though. It's heresy to talk about threading a threadless fork, but if it was mine I'd probably just try anyway.
Went and measured the longest 1-1/8" threaded steerer I personally have, about 8.5" and that's the longest non replacement fork I've ever seen. The frame it came off was gigantic by mountain bike standards, 23" or 24" at least.
Went and measured the longest 1-1/8" threaded steerer I personally have, about 8.5" and that's the longest non replacement fork I've ever seen. The frame it came off was gigantic by mountain bike standards, 23" or 24" at least.