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Fork conversion from threadless to threaded?

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Fork conversion from threadless to threaded?

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Old 03-13-18, 07:42 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by TenGrainBread View Post
From an engineering standpoint, a system which requires less maintenance by design is always better than a system that needs maintenance, no matter the willingness of the rider to do said maintenance (most bike riders aren't dedicated nutheads like ourselves ).

Star nuts are not consumable parts and are not meant to break. The only time I've seen them break is when the user doesn't understand that they are there to simply eliminate play in the bearings, and not to be tightened until the bolt can turn anymore. If this concept is understood, changing stems or adjusting spacer/stem position is a 2 minute job, I have done it on the road before and it is just as quick and easy as in the shop.

I think a lot of C&V enthusiasts like working on their bikes and doing maintenance on old parts because they find them beautiful, engrossing, and fun. And in many cases these parts are just what we're used to. Acknowledging that habit, aesthetic appreciation, and mechanical curiosity can contribute to the love of a part separate from its design superiority or inferiority to modern parts is an exercise I think we all would benefit from. In other words, rather than scrambling to come up with ways in which threaded is better than threadless, and spouting off conspiracies on how the bike companies are just trying to get us to buy the newest thing, we should just say "I like C&V parts, and that's it."
I don't think there's a conspiracy involved. Bike manufacturers have their reasons for shifting to threadless, and as I said, they have many advantages. No doubt the world is a better place for their presence. Am I setting a bad example for the rest of society by not wholeheartedly embracing them? Probably. Sigh.
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Old 03-13-18, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
If you had a fork threading die , and the tool handle to guide it in ideal alignment, then you would not have to find a frame builder that does.
Except threaded stems are thicker walled, to allow for the metal cut away by a thread die.
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Old 03-13-18, 11:08 PM
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The reduction in labour and warehousing costs associated with threadless front end allows the average bicycle buyer, who rarely puts tools to their bikes, a better quality bike for the same amount of money. for those of us who do our own work, both are fine aren't they?
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Old 03-14-18, 12:10 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
Custom.

Here's one from Brian Chapman:

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4487/3...8f87a0fd_b.jpg
That's not bad. Placing the bolts forward of the steerer helps make it look less like a radiator hose clamp.
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Old 03-14-18, 12:15 AM
  #30  
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The other disadvantage of a threadless stem is the stack of spacers sticking above the stem, when the stem is in a low position. Its about as sleek and elegant as a clunky set of stem shifters sticking up in the wind. Of course you can cut the steerer, but then the stem is no longer adjustable.

With a threaded / quill, the stem looks just as sleek when raised as when lowered.
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Old 03-14-18, 06:45 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
how difficult is it to shuffle some spacers from under the stem to over it, If you left the steerer long enough..
I've never bought a new bike with a threadless stem--just that one Surly frame, which came with an uncut steerer--so this is an honest question: when you buy a new bike from a shop, do they start with an uncut steerer which they cut to any length you request, or do they provide a precut and preassembled steerer in a length that the manufacturer has decided will suit most riders for that frame size? Or does it depend on the shop?
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Old 03-14-18, 08:47 AM
  #32  
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You can get a Soma Quill-inator. Costs about $80. Thta makes it possible to slap a quill stem on a threadless fork.
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Old 03-14-18, 09:21 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Ungaro View Post
You can get a Soma Quill-inator. Costs about $80. Thta makes it possible to slap a quill stem on a threadless fork.
An interesting idea but perhaps the ugliest solution of all.

Brent
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Old 03-14-18, 10:29 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by obrentharris View Post
An interesting idea but perhaps the ugliest solution of all.

Brent
Also pointless in my application, since it doesn't shorten the steerer by very much.
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Old 03-14-18, 11:30 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by jonwvara View Post
I've never bought a new bike with a threadless stem--just that one Surly frame, which came with an uncut steerer--so this is an honest question: when you buy a new bike from a shop, do they start with an uncut steerer which they cut to any length you request, or do they provide a precut and preassembled steerer in a length that the manufacturer has decided will suit most riders for that frame size? Or does it depend on the shop?
I really have no idea how it is now. I'd guess they come precut nowadays (?), as it's no great hassle to cut them to length in a factory, and it would eliminate the possibility of the bike shop messing it up.

I quit working in shops in the very early days of threadless steer tubes. At that time you had to cut them. If you buy a custom frame, it will most likely come with an uncut steerer. Mine did.

IMO whatever your issue is, it's probably going to be easier to solve with a different stem or whatever than by sweating in a new steer tube. Also, I can't imagine 1 1/8" threaded headsets and stems will be very easy to come by. They only existed for a few years -- a short blip in time.

As long as everyone is weighing in, my preference is for threadless. It's stronger, lighter and better. I do like the adjustability of the old quill stems though. It was useful for me to have a quill stem on my Rivendell Clem, since I hadn't ridden north road type bars for any great distance since I was like 12. It helped me dial it in. For road bikes, I kind of know my position, and am not inclined to change it.
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Old 03-14-18, 12:31 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
I really have no idea how it is now. I'd guess they come precut nowadays (?), as it's no great hassle to cut them to length in a factory, and it would eliminate the possibility of the bike shop messing it up.

I quit working in shops in the very early days of threadless steer tubes. At that time you had to cut them. If you buy a custom frame, it will most likely come with an uncut steerer. Mine did.

IMO whatever your issue is, it's probably going to be easier to solve with a different stem or whatever than by sweating in a new steer tube. Also, I can't imagine 1 1/8" threaded headsets and stems will be very easy to come by. They only existed for a few years -- a short blip in time.

As long as everyone is weighing in, my preference is for threadless. It's stronger, lighter and better. I do like the adjustability of the old quill stems though. It was useful for me to have a quill stem on my Rivendell Clem, since I hadn't ridden north road type bars for any great distance since I was like 12. It helped me dial it in. For road bikes, I kind of know my position, and am not inclined to change it.
The OP has already stated his need - adjustable stem height "on the fly", and minimal breakdown size for rinko. Quill seems to win there.
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Old 03-14-18, 12:39 PM
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then it's easy, get a Custom fork made..
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Old 03-14-18, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
The OP has already stated his need - adjustable stem height "on the fly", and minimal breakdown size for rinko. Quill seems to win there.
Hmm, must have missed the "on the fly" and rinko comments. Still can't find them. On another thread perhaps?

Just to be thorough, I fully admit that these are completely hideous, but there is such a thing as an adjustable threadless stem.



But I agree, for a touring/rinko bike, yeah, for sure quill is the most elegant and the most functional. A replacement threaded steer tube for a LHT is going to be beefy enough that the chance of any potential downside is essentially nil.

Since no one mentioned it, I still think that Rene Herse stems were beautiful. They were the original threadless stem. (sort of)

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Old 03-14-18, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by jyl View Post
That's not bad. Placing the bolts forward of the steerer helps make it look less like a radiator hose clamp.
Trek used to make some like that in the mid 90's (I think they were System 3?) that were also not too thick. Some Thomson stems are also forward like that, but are very thick.

Not my picture, but looks a lot like the one or two system 3? stems that I have in my parts box. Only 2 bolts on the faceplate, I'm not sure if that was a hazard or not.


I do wish there were attractive quill stems with removable faceplates in more sizes/styles that were easily available.
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Old 03-14-18, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
then it's easy, get a Custom fork made..
FWIW, Jeff Lyon offers forks, in either the higher finish Lyonsport, or very nice L’Avecaise versions.

https://www.lyonsport.com/frames-0
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Old 03-14-18, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
Hmm, must have missed the "on the fly" and rinko comments. Still can't find them. On another thread perhaps?
A bit buried in this.
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Old 03-14-18, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Trevtassie View Post
Except threaded stems are thicker walled, to allow for the metal cut away by a thread die.
When you say stem, I'm assuming you mean steerer. I haven't measured every threadless steerer made, but everyone that I have measured has the same ID/OD as a threaded. ~.0625" wall.
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Old 03-14-18, 02:02 PM
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How about this?
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Old 03-14-18, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
How about this?
Ingenious and hideous.
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Old 03-14-18, 02:24 PM
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the Larry Vs Harry cargo bikes use them, as a fleet shared bike TECHNICAL INFO - Larry Vs. Harry
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Old 03-14-18, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
then it's easy, get a Custom fork made..
That's probably going to be easier than getting the old one modified. Not to hijack the thread, but I'd be happy for any leads to frame builders that would be be willing to take on a job like this. I don't need a super-elegant custom job--just a good-quality lugged fork (the tubing is plain old 4130 steel, I think) that duplicates the geometry of the original.

This might be nuts, but as a guy who works closely with machine shops, it seems to me that it might also be possible to make some sort of double-ended expandable internal plug fitting that would allow one to cut off a threaded steerer a couple of inches above the fork, and mechanically fasten on a threaded steerer from there upward.

That would not be a trivial design project, and it would have to be executed with precision, given that the cost of screwing it up could be very high. A custom fork is probably a better idea all around.
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Old 03-14-18, 02:47 PM
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long list of bike business links via UBI bikeschool.com

One may be able to machine a steerer tube which was thick wall 7/8" ID for most common quill stems, with a 1.125" OD..

sleeve inside, effectively butted .. typical OD steerer, 1" ID, 1/16" tube wall, for 9/8" ... 1/8" tube wall for 7/8 inside, 9/8" outside

rolling threads displaces metal rather than cutting it, thats how spokes are threaded.







....

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Old 03-14-18, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by SquidPuppet View Post
When you say stem, I'm assuming you mean steerer. I haven't measured every threadless steerer made, but everyone that I have measured has the same ID/OD as a threaded. ~.0625" wall.
I've never measured one, it's just what I remember being told, and took it as gospel....
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Old 03-14-18, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Trevtassie View Post
I've never measured one, it's just what I remember being told, and took it as gospel....
same here as I've been told this over and over.
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Old 03-14-18, 04:52 PM
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I think the biggest issue with threading an unthreaded steerer is getting the die started straight. If you want to experiment a guy has a couple 1-1/8" threading dies on ebay super cheap right now, no pilots or handle though. It's heresy to talk about threading a threadless fork, but if it was mine I'd probably just try anyway.

Went and measured the longest 1-1/8" threaded steerer I personally have, about 8.5" and that's the longest non replacement fork I've ever seen. The frame it came off was gigantic by mountain bike standards, 23" or 24" at least.
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