Ideale 90 is back
 

Dale Brown (Classic Rendezvous owner/operator) posted this Flickr album regarding the new Ideale 90 he received in the mail. Apparently the people working on the resurrection of the brand have been at it for about five years. They've tracked down retired employees as well as some of the original equipment. Seems like a labor of love. (I love my 90.)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/oroboy...h/40298742994/

Looks pretty nice:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/811/2...a620d1db_c.jpg

That looks great! If the original Ideale on my Sieger is too old and tired, that might be a good alternative to a Brooks Pro, which is what I put on my other Capo.

Going to have to want one pretty bad, I think the thread about these said they $250+ a copy.

Very cool and as we know, cool = spendy. ;)

They seem to be priced similar to the Berthoud Aspin, so not totally out-of-this-world pricing.

But there’s no “Croupon Garanti” stamp!

A Brooks Pro is $190. If you want French, at that point, it ain't much more.

My first road bike had one in the natural color, a bit more depth to the finish, but I admire the effort.
It was a good saddle, worry about it one wet Winter after riding in wrapped on a baggie had me switch to an all plastic Unicanitor. The equal comfort and lack of upkeep required as well as the reduced weigh had me. Sold it off a few years later for a handsome sum at the time. They were hard to get. Still, a very attractive saddle. Better shape than the Brooks Pro for my undercarriage.

:lol: but I don't think the Idéale 90 ever had them.

One of the people involved in the Idéale resurrection has been participating generously in the discussion on the Classic Rendezvous list. It sounds like they are very conscientious and serious.

At the moment they are producing the model no 90, which was a classic of the 1970's. They hope to start offering other models at some point. It will be interesting to see which models they choose.

Wow! I missed the discussion on CR - very cool to use the original equipment and consult with the original workers.

Ouch! That's twice what I paid for my Brooks Pro during a Nashbar sale. I guess no one else wanted maroon, but my artist wife assures me it is perfect on my Capo.

Ouch! That's twice what I paid for my Brooks Pro during a Nashbar sale. I guess no one else wanted maroon, but my artist wife assures me it is perfect on my Capo.

I always like the TB80 & TB90...

I hope they get around to reissuing their touring saddles- I love my TB75, and my TB6 (ridden to near destruction) was the most comfortable leather saddle I've owned to date. If Ideale made or reissued a single-rail version of the TB75, I'd probably sell both of my Brooks Flyers.

This is not to say anything against Brooks (impeccable quality), but saddles are a very personal thing, and in my case the Ideale saddles fit my butt just a tad better.

Still riding my TB90 that I got around 1980.

https://i.imgur.com/vNz3Abrl.jpg

I have multiple vintage Brooks Professionals and a couple modern ones.

While they are actually pretty nice saddles, the modern ones seem to be invariably made from lighter weight leather and have a bit more flex and give to them (Even the deluxe 'Team Pro'). They don't inspire confidence that they will be as long lasting as the venerable ones from the 1970s and earlier.

Anyone here know if that is also the case with the Ideale vintage vs the Ideale repro saddles? They certainly look nice!

Love my Ideale.

I've been riding this one for ten years.

Still have a back up on the shelf, if this one wears out.

If I am still riding in 10-15 years, I'd consider a reissue.

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2682/...b883e8da_b.jpgUntitled by gomango1849, on Flickr

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2841/...8d5be356_b.jpgUntitled by gomango1849, on Flickr

In the case of Brooks, I suspect the company has become aware of a "use it up and throw it away" among today's cyclists. They market their saddles to people who want a comfortable saddle today, not at some point in the future. Sure, there are those among us who complain the new Brooks saddles don't hold up the way the old ones did; but we seem to be a minority.

Whether they can get leather of the quality and quantity they used 50 years ago, I won't speculate.

As for Ideale, they have found a domestic source of leather tanned by the same method as they used 50 years ago. I am not sure I'm understanding what Katia said on CR: but I believe she meant to say they use leather from deceased dairy cows, rather than beef cattle; the latter may have a spongy quality. But as I say, I may have misunderstood her on this matter.

Brooks is trying to be a modern company marketing a traditional product to today's rider. They are trying to modernize and move with the times. Whether that is the new Ideale's goal, I can't say.

At any rate no one should mistake leather thickness for leather quality. Leather has many characteristics, some of which make for a good saddle, others not. Thickness is one of them; but hardly the only one.

From my experiences in saddle discussions by touring bikers, I suggest that if using thinner leather is purposeful, it’s because of competition from makers such as Selle Anatomica, which is frequently touted as being comfortable right out of the box.

I'm becoming less confident in both the above companies. I won't even begin to describe the longevity of Selle Anatomica. I'm easy on any saddle, follow factory recommended care and very careful for wet weather protection.

Next is Brooks. Large dissapointment with a B15 swallow ti railed, fresh from the factory carton. 2017 production. Leather is tweaked offset. Rails not symmetric.

I'm going to look into the new Ideale.

"Spongiform", perhaps? :twitchy:

...if anyone is interested, I popped for one of those Giles Berthoud saddles in a weak moment to put on a Richard Sachs bike.
They are pretty good right out of the box, but of course I don't know how long it will endure...seems like a solid leather saddle with a relatively light frame.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a39b95b135.jpg
I have an Ideal 88 on one of my Grand Records that has the Daniel Rebour markings on it similar to the one in the first picture. As I understand it, the Daniel Rebour designation indicated these were pre-softened or treated with something to make them more softer and thus more comfortable from the get-go. Are the new 90s similarly treated?

Reviewing the thread on CR, I believe they are.

Their homepage is online now (since a few weeks)

https://www.sellesideale.fr/en





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An issue for the new Ideale (even brooks) is that they need the best characteristics for the top range saddles, in decades long gone, Ideale made a wide range of price point saddles, so "less than" hides still found use in saddles like the #39 .
No economy of use today.

Even between 2002 and now, I see a difference. I have ridden a B17 Champion Special since 2002 on multiple multi-month tours and I distinctly remember it being very uncomfortable at first, but I've had the thing just a hair more than half my life and it's really held up. So I bought another one last year at an unbelievable price from SJS Cycles and put it on my Trek. After several hundred miles, it appears to be in the same condition as my 18 year old one. I'm really hoping I don't have to punch holes and lace it. Kind of kicking myself for selling an old Team Pro I found years ago, but that thing was absolutely rock hard and it seemed no amount of breaking in would change it. I was just a kid though.

The information is correct. The reason could be that the average age of the slaughtered cattle, beef cattle apx. 18 to 24 month, cows at least 3years, in some cases older than ten years.

The problem is older ... :)
(Rebours book from 1975, p. 113):
"Jadis, une seule selle était pratiquement utilisée par tous, c'était la BROOKS « B.17 » anglaise. En cuir de première qualité, sa forme était rationnelle et son confort, une fois bien « rodée », était parfait. Malheureusement, la qualité du cuir d'après-guerre n'est plus la même, le principe même de fabrication de cette selle, ainsi que sa forme, ont été modifiés et actuellement, il n'y a pas un coureur sur cent qui l'utilise encore.
Disons aussi que la selle classique en cuir présente un inconvénient sérieux.
Aujourd'hui, les coureurs courent presque toute l'année, et ils n'ont plus comme jadis cette longue période de creux, entre septembre et avril, où ils pouvaient « faire » une nouvelle selle, celle-ci, neuve, étant très dure et risquant de blesser le cycliste."
Translation:
"In the past, only one saddle was used by almost everyone, it was the English BROOKS "B.17". Made of top quality leather, its shape was rational and its comfort, once well "run in", was perfect. Unfortunately, the quality of the post-war leather is no longer the same, the very principle of manufacturing this saddle, as well as its shape, have been modified and at present, not one rider in a hundred still uses it.
Let's also say that the classic leather saddle has a serious disadvantage.
Nowadays, riders race almost all year round, and they no longer have that long period of time between September and April when they could "make" a new saddle, as this new saddle is very hard and can injure the rider."

but Brooks is still Brooks....

​​​​​​Nonetheless, I still don't understand why the hide of an older cow should be preferred to that of a young one, once they reach full size. They're not trees-- they don't have annual growth rings. As far as I know, the only thing that happens to an animal's hide, once it gets to maturity, is damage.

So I have a hard time believing that it's the cows' fault the leather isn't any good. The animals haven't changed. If there's a real difference in the quality of the leather (which I don't doubt) the problem is in the tanning.

Just spit-balling here--- :innocent:

Could antibiotics, hormones and other dietary conditions impact hide quality? Do the most cost effective hides come from feed-lot cattle? Would a free-range hide be different? Of course I have no way to answer any of these questions!

Just because bones aren't getting longer doesn't mean the composition of the specimen (human, cow, dog, etc) isn't changing. I'm 66 and I can tell you for sure that my skin ain't what it was when I was 26. It seems quite possible that the properties of leather made from 18-month old and ten-year old cattle might be different.