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-   -   Ah, crap. (https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/1141874-ah-crap.html)

gugie 04-22-18 09:38 PM

Oh, you want pix, you say?

The full monty.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/867/27...d6bfac67_b.jpg

Ignore the bulge, focus on the decal. Velocals made a custom set for me.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/868/40...7c400938_b.jpg

Badges. Yeah we need some stinking badges. @rhm had these made for me. Shapeways.com will take your art, 3D print it in wax, then use the lost wax process to cast in the metal of your choice, brass in this instance.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/820/27...1d557be9_b.jpg

The seat stays and original dropouts came out, I got these verticals from Mitch Pryor, and new seat stays from framebuilder.com. Internal wiring is for a seat stay mounted tail light.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/785/27...8e790c17_b.jpg

Internal wiring from the front.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/931/41...9dfa5b56_b.jpg

Some extra bits for fenders, pump pegs, and cantilevers
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/827/27...73177114_b.jpg

RiddleOfSteel 04-22-18 09:54 PM

Beautiful frame! Lovely color and modern updates. We all look forward to seeing it on its wheels again!

ThermionicScott 04-22-18 10:09 PM


Originally Posted by gugie (Post 20300793)
UPDATE!

Tonite, with a lot of encouragement, I pulled the headset, re-faced the upper lug, and pressed the bits back together, carefully. After reinstalling the headset, it spins perfectly.

I'm gonna ride this frame.

Yay! I'm not a framebuilder, but there shouldn't be (that much) danger in riding this thing, right? The steerer and headset will hold the head tube together, and you can just keep an eye on the top tube. Maybe you could braze a fancy gusset between the top tube and head tube if you had reason to be concerned at some point. :thumb:

svt4cam4.6 04-22-18 10:16 PM

1 Attachment(s)
[MENTION=381793]gugie[/MENTION], You should just saw the hanger off it and turn it into a fixie like I did.

steelbikeguy 04-23-18 08:25 AM

Glad to see that the bike will be built up and get some use. It's too pretty to just sit around and get dusty.

Love the brass Reynolds "decals"! Very clever! Plus, they solve the issue of the original decals cracking and flaking off with the slightest provocation.

Also love the "Grander Sportier" top tube decals! Not only is it very truthful, but adds one more variation to the Gran Sport/Grand Sport(s) designation that occurred over the years. :) That should confuse at least a few Raleigh enthusiasts.


Steve in Peoria

ApolloSoyuz1975 04-23-18 08:50 AM

Bulge or not... she looks great. Was half-wondering if a (determined!) mechanic could ream the head tube until it came loose from the brazed areas, then braze a new HT into place. Or remove fork, heat I/D of the HT w/ blowtorch, & quench with water/oil from a spray bottle to temper the bulged area? 🤔

Salamandrine 04-23-18 09:01 AM

I think it would be easier to sawzall through the head tube, then torch it and slip off both lugs. At that point the TT bulge could be rolled out. Braze in a new HT and it's all better... Easy for me to say. :lol:

It's obvious a whole lot of work went into that bike. It's worth the full save IMO, though maybe not right now.

gugie 04-23-18 09:05 AM


Originally Posted by ApolloSoyuz1975 (Post 20301441)
Bulge or not... she looks great. Was half-wondering if a (determined!) mechanic could ream the head tube until it came loose from the brazed areas, then braze a new HT into place. Or remove fork, heat I/D of the HT w/ blowtorch, & quench with water/oil from a spray bottle to temper the bulged area? 🤔

Your idea of reaming the head tube until I got down to brass would be the way to do it. But that's a lot of work, and then I'd have to send it back to the powder coater...I'm going to ride it as is.

exmechanic89 04-23-18 09:20 AM

I'd ride it as is, as well. Not a safety issue, imo. And from an aesthetic POV it's pretty unnoticeable, too. I'd build it up and ride it. :thumb:

noglider 04-23-18 09:48 AM

With the head tube compressed, you've increased the head tube angle, so now the Sportier name is especially fitting.

ollo_ollo 04-23-18 10:30 AM

Good decision, riding is why these machines exist. Not reasonable to abandon it and someday, you will have some time on your hands and could do a fix. Or not. Don

non-fixie 04-23-18 10:50 AM

So what's wrong with a few wrinkles? I got a few wrinkles ...

gugie 04-23-18 11:50 AM


Originally Posted by non-fixie (Post 20301769)
So what's wrong with a few wrinkles? I got a few wrinkles ...

That's it! Bike and rider are in alignment...

Classtime 04-23-18 02:29 PM

My LBS who knows a bunch about these old bikes has straightened a bunch after front end crashes and he figures that crunched and straightened, the frame retains about 95% of its integrity/strength. My PX-10 has been modified like that. Yours has only been crunched one direction so I figure you got 97.5% left to abuse. Pretty fancy bike. Those lights will come in handy next year with a dark-thirty Heroic ride start.

Chombi1 04-23-18 06:39 PM

Hopefully that head tube is not as soft as licorice like the one I had on the defective PSV I bought in 84 and you don't end up with a headset that will keep loosening and your headtube continuing to accordion on you......

gugie 04-23-18 06:41 PM


Originally Posted by Chombi1 (Post 20302949)
Hopefully that head tube is not as soft as licorice like the one I had on the defective PSV I bought in 84 and you don't end up with a headset that will keep loosening and your headtube continuing to accordion on you......

We shall see. Since I know about it I'll check often.

Dean51 04-24-18 09:18 AM

Well, good on 'ya for completing the build and riding it. BUT, having observed the quality/detail of your other work, I suspect it will be a when, not an if, you replace that head tube. If it were mine, that bulge would be an "eye magnet".....I would not be able to look at the bike without focusing on the head tube.

Dean

gugie 04-24-18 09:38 AM


Originally Posted by Dean51 (Post 20303936)
Well, good on 'ya for completing the build and riding it. BUT, having observed the quality/detail of your other work, I suspect it will be a when, not an if, you replace that head tube. If it were mine, that bulge would be an "eye magnet".....I would not be able to look at the bike without focusing on the head tube.

Dean

My plan is to only ride it after drinking heavily. Won't notice is so much, or care for that matter.

Revracer 04-24-18 10:22 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 20301599)
With the head tube compressed, you've increased the head tube angle, so now the Sportier name is especially fitting.

My thoughts exactly, I have a vintage French bike that had a slight bend in the downtube, straightened up the head tube angle to 76 degrees and it is a more fun ride IMO. Plus the bulge adds character matching the embossed / inflated brass Reynolds badges which are super cool!

noglider 04-24-18 10:26 AM

I'm really kidding about the head angle. I doubt it's a significant difference, if any.

SJX426 04-24-18 10:31 AM

Many have expressed my thoughts so I won't repeat. I am curious about where the seam is on the HT.

Why?

Wondering if the seam was faulty and gave way. Though I would expect a split instead of a bulge. But then again, if it was a penetration issue, maybe part of the seam held to support a bulge deformation.

gugie 04-24-18 11:21 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 20304138)
I'm really kidding about the head angle. I doubt it's a significant difference, if any.

I'll measure as soon as I get it built up. I have another Gran(d) Sport(s) to compare to, I didn't measure this one prior to torch work as I didn't see a need to change the geometry.


Originally Posted by SJX426 (Post 20304149)
Many have expressed my thoughts so I won't repeat. I am curious about where the seam is on the HT.

Why?

Wondering if the seam was faulty and gave way. Though I would expect a split instead of a bulge. But then again, if it was a penetration issue, maybe part of the seam held to support a bulge deformation.

The seam is on the "back side" where the bulge is. It may be coincidental. Outside of deflection where it's bulged, I didn't see anything out of the ordinary, like a cracked seam, rust, etc. I could take a hacksaw, cut up the head tube, make x-sections, polish, and have it sent out for analysis, check the grain structure and phase, do hardness testing, etc. But why? I'd just be giving a defunct manufacturing process some QC information to feed back to their non-existant production line. Ghosts in the machine, one might say in an imperfect analogy.

The techniques used today by most modern framebuilders with modern equipment are a big improvement from those used "back in the day". Most builders use silver filler for lugs now, so tubes just don't get heated up that hot. The couple of bucks savings from using a seamed, carbon steel tube for a head tube don't make sense anymore when even the least expensive production lugged frames start around a grand or so.

As is often said, we stand on the shoulders of giants.

solidtyres 04-24-18 07:33 PM

If I were in your situation, I would likely do a Jackson Pollack paint job on the head tube, then basically forget about it.

exmechanic89 04-25-18 08:03 AM

Well one positive thing that came out of this mishap is that it's an educational situation for some - I never knew this could happen. Also didnt know frame builders BITD saved money by using seamed HTs. Seems like a poor way to save a small amount of money.

Sir_Name 04-25-18 08:19 AM

Glad to see it’s being saved, looks like you have quite a bit of work in it already and some interesting plans for the build. Still, I can imagine that sinking feeling in the gut when you realize something is not as it should be...I think most of us can relate to that. Kudos on pushing through!


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