That's a unique build! So much blending of old and new it's almost hard to keep track.

Questions:
1. How much flex are you feeling with that much extension coming off the top of the innicycle headset? It's not worrisome; more curiosity and knowledge for the 'next guy' who wants to do the same thing.
2. Did you happen to take any caliper measurements of your fork's crown diameter? Could it possibly have been JIS spec? I have personally experienced the standard ISO crown race taking a few hard whacks to seat, but I've also seen it practically slide on to some other forks. Seems like the cycling industry has never quite been able to produce decent press fits!
3. What inspired this build? Given the quality of parts used, this appears to be much more than just a 'slapped it together for fun' project.

I have been asked several times for clarification of the frame and fork dimensions required to install an innicycle. This is still a work in progress but here is an attempt at conveying those requirements in drawing form: https://www.scribd.com/document/4796...ork-Inspection

Please, don't be kind but do be constructive. I want this to be useful for anyone who sees it and plans to do the install themselves. Critique away!

1. How much flex are you feeling with that much extension coming off the top of the innicycle headset? None that I have noticed, and I do a bit of trail riding with it. I am glad I found this product because I was set on the dirt drops. They seem to need a bit of a rise, especially with an older geometry. I wanted a sealed headset and was looking into a clean solution. I didn't think the VO cigne stem would look good on the quill adapter/riser.
VO setup guide

2. Did you happen to take any caliper measurements of your fork's crown diameter? No but I should have. I ended up filing the fork a little and filing a bit more of a chamfer on the race so it would start evenly. I used a long piece of all thread with a large nut and washer and a long piece of pvc over the steer tube to press it on. Could it possibly have been JIS spec? I am not sure since I didn't measure. But I did make sure not to file away too much to where the old original race felt loose.

3. What inspired this build? Most of my bikes have been somewhat budget friendly and older. I have never had a mountain bike before. I had an old trek 1200 which was great for getting around SF as my commuter and a 2300. As the 1200 turned more into my baby hauler it was no longer sturdy enough and the geometry was horrible. Also, I wanted to be able to take off the baby seat and ride some trails. I had to look for a bit to find a budget friendly 700c bike big enough for me, that would also clear a decent tire. I wanted a basic chromoly rigid setup, so I figured might as well have the 700c to roll over things if I was going to have a bit of fun with it. It was also going to replace my road/commuter bikes for now.

I originally had my old white ind/ velocity a23 wheels with 35c tires on it and the bike felt a lot quicker, but I kept bending the rims and had a tough time in loose gravel/sand. With the wtb dual duty wheels and 50c its smooth and strong even with my son and gear. A little but more sluggish but worth it. It's still decent to ride on road since its a gravel tire and not full on mtb tire, and the drop position and 700c don't hurt either. It's my do it all bike other than bmx. Next up is a nicer front rack and pannier setup for the baby gear while out riding.

The 2300 was a frame and fork in the trash can, the 1200 was $80 for the frame and fork, and the diamondback was $60 for the frame and fork. The 1200 has been my regular ride for about 10 years so I get my money out of them ;)

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...81ed95db1.jpeg
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Got mentioned in GCN Tech Show
about 10:45 in...

No stock on Amazon— any plans for more?

Lots of plans! Life in general seems to be doing all it can to interfere, though. I do have stock ready to ship directly.

Just finished up my innicycle install. I think it came out pretty clean. Thanks to Joe for being super responsive during the process. Also looks like the headset is getting a little media attention https://bikepacking.com/news/innicyc...rsion-headset/

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0d5fa9ec96.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a6c0b0769a.jpg

VOLS That's looking really good! I read on another thread that this was just part 1. What else do you have planned?

Elsewhere on the internet, I see that a little media attention has riled up all the retro grouches and cheapskates :rolleyes: ;)

Yea, that paceline thread was interesting..

That forum has changed a lot since it stopped being the Serotta forum

I can't believe no one told me.

Maybe their invite got lost in the mail? That new-fangled internet is so expensive!

Planning on turning it into my training bike by updating to 11 speed and getting some nice lightish wheels on there. Hope to get it all done before it gets too cold down south.

It gets cold in Hot-lanta? :D

Please do update when the new group and wheels are installed.

Mystery solved on "loose" stem/steerer with an Innicycle.

Background: My 3rd or 4th Innicycle adapter, installed on an '88 Ironman, had an issue: No matter how tight the stem was tightened, it still seemed to move on the steerer. [MENTION=11954]joejack951[/MENTION] and I discussed it, and I tried 3 or 4 stems, all which pivoted on the steerer. JoeJack really wanted to inspect the stems and the Innicycle adapter, but I did not really want to go down that rabbit hole.

In what I thought was "the end," I bought a serious stem, Easton EC90. No way should that have been able to slip. It did. Dammit.

I went back into the instructions, both written and in various posts re: the Innicycle. it came down to "pre-load."

In the instructions, during installation you use a stem sort of as a "handle" to tighten down the headset pre-load, then you remove the stem, add spacers as needed, and then bolt the stem into place and use it like any other.

Because I'd never read the instruction, I was using a channel-locks to tighten down the pre-load. (JoeJack heartily disapproved of that). Well, the channel-locks simply don't have the grip and the torque capability to get the pre-load strong enough. When I added spacers and bolted on the stem, it wasn't slipping on the steerer; the steerer itself was moving because the pre-load was not enough to lock it in place. It was moving, not the stem.

the light bulb moment: I was riding the Ironman on the rollers this morning. Not a time to have a loose pre-load imitating a loose stem. I was disgusted, so I stopped Zwift and pulled the bike into another room, pulled the bars, pulled the stem, re-installed the stem and tightened that damn pre-load into place. Then I re-installed the spacers (all Innicycle-great spacers) and the stem, and the bars and the Garmin mount, and got back on the rollers and did 2 x 1-hour sessions, on the rollers.

So now I have 4 different stems, all of which were thought to be too big or had some defect. One stem was destroyed by over-tightening (stripped out the threads).

And sore legs.

The Innicycle remains, in my opinion, the best bike frame component to be developed in the last 15 years. Sure, replaceable dropouts are great, but the Innicycle works on old bikes, can breath new life into obsolete frames, and puts the flexibility and variability of modern stems to older bike fit. It would have saved 1" threaded forks, singlehandedly, just a few years earlier.

Yes. Especially for modernizing classic frames.

Question/observation: how do you get the Innicycle spacers on? The rubber o-ring inside makes it prohibitively difficult to the point where I use regular spacers. What benefit do the o-rungs provide other than holding the spacer in place?

They simply hold the spacers in place and dont let them jingle. Since the headset doesnt require preload with a star nut that would typically remove slack from where the spacers are, there is a tiny bit of slack in the spacer stack with the innicycle. Having the rubber ring keeps the spacers in place and eliminates the jingling that can come from regular spacers.
I have a mix of regular spacers and innicycle spacers to get the height right. The o rings work great to keep the spacers in place, even when mixed in with regular spacers. I agree- they are the debil to remove(and add, at least for one of them).

Is the Innicycle available anymore?

Yes, and it’s worth every penny, Tom.

Sorry for the back-and-forth. Where can one buy it?

I gave up the first time, and removed the O-rings.
Then I just hitched up my drawers and pushed hard.
They go on once you get them started.
Removing them is tedious.

And they look "marvelous."
(Yes, I lined up all the logos on mine.)

While I'm sure glad to hear that it was in fact not the stem moving on the steerer tube, I am still a bit concerned that your headsets are installed properly. After setting the preload, that adjustment is locked out using the hex recess in the top cap. Tightening the top cap expands the quill going down into the steerer tube, which both locks the steerer tube to the fork (highly important!) and prevents the headset bearing preload adjustment from changing. Are you tightening the top cap enough?

:beer:

Hmmm, I'm getting the sense that I went overboard with the o-ring interference....

A few tips to ease installation:

1. Water-based lube (soapy water works)
2. Push AND turn/twist at the same time
3. If you've cut your steerer tube, deburr the heck out of the cut edge before trying to install a spacer, or add the top cap first

1 & 2 are critical and I've goofed by not addressing that more formally in any of the videos.

Please dont take my response as indication that I dislike the spacers. I think they are a fantastic bit of engineering. I always wondered why typical threadless conversion stems werent dead flat at the bottom to allow spacers to be used for look, and spacers with a rubber ring like yours would have been perfect for that application too since it removes the jingling.

I think the headset is awesome. Funny enough, its my most expensive headset, but its on the bike attached to my trainer right now. That bike does get the most 'miles' right now though, so i guess it could be said the headset is on the bike I use the most!
Next spring Ill most likely cut it down a bit since i positioned it at near the top of the full extension and havent gotten around to cutting. Gonna have to reference the video for that since I assume its more involved than just cutting a normal steerer.

Too much rambling- the spacers are excellent at doing what they should do- look the part and not rattle.

I should have multi-quoted! When I hear a complaint mentioned by a few different people (three in just the last few posts on this thread, plus the mechanic at my local shop) I start to consider that I need to do something different. All part of the process of product development so trust me when I say I appreciate the feedback. As long as these keep selling I'll have the opportunity to make some more tweaks for the next round of production and address this issue in particular.

It really isn't that different than cutting a typical steerer, other than the need for more accuracy. Whereas the goal of cutting a traditional threadless steerer is simply to have it end somewhere below the top of your stem (or upper spacer), with an innicycle steerer you want it to end 2-2.5mm below the top of your stem. That way when you add the top cap the cap will be flush with the top of the stem. You also just let the top cap protrude and cut the steerer right at the top of the stem. It's functional either way so how you cut it comes down to an aesthetic choice and if you feel like you may want to swap between stems with different clamp heights. To the latter point, the top cap thickness neatly makes up the difference in clamp heights between the two most common options (40 and 42mm). I went for the flush look on my Trek:

https://live.staticflickr.com/960/41...63b54744_z.jpg

PM me or email at joe@jjpne.com

FYI, I am checking into why my YouTube installation video links have been removed. Perhaps there's a good reason for it so I won't be re-posting them until I hear back. Until then, searching 'innicycle' on YouTube will pull up the videos.

My normal spacers don’t jingle

Are they on a threadless headset or atrached to a threadless conversion stem?

Threadless conversation

I recently purchased 2 of the conversion headsets. So far, one is installed, the other reserved for an upcoming project.

After a brief few minutes with a thread file on the steerer, I was able to set the bearing preload by hand. The easiest job I have ever had the pleasure of doing. Turn, turn, turn, stop...zero play, done!

Regarding the unexpected twisting: It's the top cap not being held tight enough by the quill/the quill not interfacing tight enough to fight any twisting action between wheel & handlebars. The solution as far as I can tell is to consider the recommended maximum 15nm top cap (quill bolt) torque as a a minimum torque, not a maximum.

For my own internal thought process: 12-15nm is the recommended range the left crank arm bolt torque on Shimano external bearing cranksets, so considering the quill bolt is a much larger size, I felt it was permissable to risk not more than 20nm...Not that I would recommend any more. The quill locked in convincingly tight at that torque & required a good blow with a hammer to break the friction as any quill stem properly set should.

My thoughts are the very viscous Finish Line white lithium grease I was using on any & all components may have been viscous enough to require a second or third torque at 15nm to be effectively squeezed out of the interface so that good metal to metal contact between quill & steerer could be obtained. Experiments with a thinner grease, or more conservative application of grease, &/or retorque requirements would likely provide illumination in this regard.

As I have previously dealt with improperly worked wedge-style eccentrics, I do have concerns with the threads of the quill wedge sustaining a solid whack with a hammer for future adjustments, bearing replacements, or other work. I can see the possibility in an aluminum wedge of inadvertantly blowing the threads out of a long set &/or galvanicly corroded or over torqued wedge greatly complicating future service. A steel quill wedge would at the very least eliminate any potential for future issues & buy error margin for top-cap/quill bolt torque among any shade-tree mechanics that may happen across this wonderful invention. Of course, disregard if I am mistaken. I installed mine several weeks ago & am going by memory.

Perhaps a service bullitin recommending removing quill bolt & top cap, then dislodging the wedge by way of inserting a long flat bottomed drift punch down inside from the top side of the headset to dislodge the wedge nut before servicing bearings or preload readjustment could be recommended? This would ensure the wedge bolt/nut threads never encounter impact from the necessary freeing hammer blow other quill stems encounter many times over their lives.

Anyways, them's my thoughts & I definitely would buy again. Good product.