1958 Schwinn Paramount P-12
#51
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#53
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Stem no. 7535 (Schwinn Paramount sliding adjustable stem):
Handlebar no. 7821-A Maes type aluminum handlebar (the "A" indicates a version in aluminum, the standard version was steel)
No. 4942 and no. 4939 hubs:
No. 7084 saddle (Brooks B17 champion narrow):
Hope this helps!
Last edited by Metacortex; 06-11-18 at 08:49 PM.
#54
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Why is the initial picture taken on some weird angle against a beige wall in nearly bright light. These are the WTF pics that I would never take.
About four of the pics are good. the rest look like I need to hang upside down to figure them out.
Anyway it looks amazingly clean, and surely has value.
I see some better pics, and a picture of an airplane. Okay.
So how long would this sit on CL for $2500..............
Last edited by StarBiker; 06-11-18 at 09:15 PM.
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Why is the initial picture taken on some weird angle against a beige wall in nearly bright light. These are the WTF pics that I would never take.
About four of the pics are good. the rest look like I need to hang upside down to figure them out.
Anyway it looks amazingly clean, and surely has value.
I see some better pics, and a picture of an airplane. Okay.
So how long would this sit on CL for $2500..............
The wall pic and ones like it are sellers pics and what I had to go on, plenty of them and any question answered that I asked. Great seller and a big part of how I got here with this.
Last edited by merziac; 06-11-18 at 11:24 PM.
#56
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What a gorgeous frame and what a fun bike all around. I and very glad this deserving beauty has found a good home with someone who appreciates it.
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Here is some information on the Schwinn part numbers from 1950s and 1962 Schwinn parts catalogs:
Stem no. 7535 (Schwinn Paramount sliding adjustable stem):
Handlebar no. 7821-A Maes type aluminum handlebar (the "A" indicates a version in aluminum, the standard version was steel)
No. 4942 and no. 4939 hubs:
No. 7084 saddle (Brooks B17 champion narrow):
Hope this helps!
Stem no. 7535 (Schwinn Paramount sliding adjustable stem):
Handlebar no. 7821-A Maes type aluminum handlebar (the "A" indicates a version in aluminum, the standard version was steel)
No. 4942 and no. 4939 hubs:
No. 7084 saddle (Brooks B17 champion narrow):
Hope this helps!
So this info muddies the water a bit. The label lists Schwinn hubs that are track I think that would not have been used on this one. It has Campy hubs that are very similar with alloy flanges and are dated 57 so are either original for this one or were installed at the get go, what do I know.
With the 26X9 GEAR # and track hubs it seems like this label was confused at best, the stem, post, seat, model and colors are right.
Again Richard Schwinn was adamant that the 26X9 was nonsense and he is probably right but there is more of a story here somewhere, really seems like this was a cluster of some sort until it showed up and was either right or otherwise and may have something to do with how it stayed like this for me to get it.
However it shakes out I believe this is one of the rarest examples of these you will see that one of us could get our hands on, again what do I know.
I know this, I am damn glad I got this, it was a bargain, period.
Last edited by merziac; 06-12-18 at 12:56 AM.
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#60
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Also want to take this opportunity to thank everyone for chiming in on this, please keep it coming, I think there is a lot more to learn here.
Last edited by merziac; 06-12-18 at 12:57 AM.
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#62
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#63
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The label is from this bike as far as we know, s/n matches albeit handwritten, size, style and color also. Richard Schwinn says there's info on it he has never seen and when I floated the inch pitch theory he was adamant that it had nothing to do with this bike. All else lines up pretty well with what we have, wheels, levers, brakes, FD, HS, stem and seatpost. None of the part numbers on it correlate with info that I can find so who knows, maybe they are internal code.
Charlie Kopp had no info to add but thought it was pretty cool, they also claim to be the second oldest bike shop in the world.
Charlie Kopp had no info to add but thought it was pretty cool, they also claim to be the second oldest bike shop in the world.
I worked in a shop rather like that in 1980-1; a very old shop that had been located in downtown Washington, and had moved several miles out to Wisconsin Ave many years before I worked there. The owner, when I worked there, was the daughter of the man who started the shop. The stuff in the store rooms was amazing and bewildering, especially the older stuff that had (for one reason or another) not sold. Many NOS bikes still in boxes, but all the boxes had been opened, and the older ones were all missing a part or two. Often there was a line through some part of the description on the box-- for example, "red" crossed out, and "black" written in by hand.
There's no point in speculating what changes your Paramount has been through, but no harm in it either; obviously it came from Kopps, and it shipped from the factory with wrong information on the label. There's nothing unusual about that.
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#64
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You probably spoke to Charlie Kuhn, the current owner or co-owner; his father bought the shop from Kopp many years ago. Their current location is a very short distance from the location on the tag, and the place still has the vibe of a very old shop. If you ask, they let you go upstairs, where there's a jumble of museum quality bikes and parts arranged in no particular order, no labels, no price tags, and so on. I'm sure he'd be happy to sell anything up there for the right price, and he generally knows what the right price is.
I worked in a shop rather like that in 1980-1; a very old shop that had been located in downtown Washington, and had moved several miles out to Wisconsin Ave many years before I worked there. The owner, when I worked there, was the daughter of the man who started the shop. The stuff in the store rooms was amazing and bewildering, especially the older stuff that had (for one reason or another) not sold. Many NOS bikes still in boxes, but all the boxes had been opened, and the older ones were all missing a part or two. Often there was a line through some part of the description on the box-- for example, "red" crossed out, and "black" written in by hand.
There's no point in speculating what changes your Paramount has been through, but no harm in it either; obviously it came from Kopps, and it shipped from the factory with wrong information on the label. There's nothing unusual about that.
I worked in a shop rather like that in 1980-1; a very old shop that had been located in downtown Washington, and had moved several miles out to Wisconsin Ave many years before I worked there. The owner, when I worked there, was the daughter of the man who started the shop. The stuff in the store rooms was amazing and bewildering, especially the older stuff that had (for one reason or another) not sold. Many NOS bikes still in boxes, but all the boxes had been opened, and the older ones were all missing a part or two. Often there was a line through some part of the description on the box-- for example, "red" crossed out, and "black" written in by hand.
There's no point in speculating what changes your Paramount has been through, but no harm in it either; obviously it came from Kopps, and it shipped from the factory with wrong information on the label. There's nothing unusual about that.
#65
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As for my 1967 Paramount, it's not worth a new thread of its own, so I'll temporarily hijack yours. Serial No. F711. When I got (F/F/HS) about 15 years ago - it had what looked like big bleach blotches on it and it was yellow - not my fave color. So had it repainted a color I like. I like to say that charcoal grey was not on the Schwinn palate, but it should have been.
it is now my commuter. Here's a pic showing how it is set up now. . Not as pretty as yours, but I like how it looks. It works nicely for my purposes.
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#66
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You are already doing it justice.
As for my 1967 Paramount, it's not worth a new thread of its own, so I'll temporarily hijack yours. Serial No. F711. When I got (F/F/HS) about 15 years ago - it had what looked like big bleach blotches on it and it was yellow - not my fave color. So had it repainted a color I like. I like to say that charcoal grey was not on the Schwinn palate, but it should have been.
it is now my commuter. Here's a pic showing how it is set up now. . Not as pretty as yours, but I like how it looks. It works nicely for my purposes.
As for my 1967 Paramount, it's not worth a new thread of its own, so I'll temporarily hijack yours. Serial No. F711. When I got (F/F/HS) about 15 years ago - it had what looked like big bleach blotches on it and it was yellow - not my fave color. So had it repainted a color I like. I like to say that charcoal grey was not on the Schwinn palate, but it should have been.
it is now my commuter. Here's a pic showing how it is set up now. . Not as pretty as yours, but I like how it looks. It works nicely for my purposes.
#67
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#913 is backdated (updated with more correct parts) and cleaned up quite a bit, Campy three arm steel square taper GS? crank with Magistroni alloy chainrings, plain chrome steel bars with correct Weinmann levers and a very close to correct Campy GS rd.
This bike was covered at every mechanical intersection with petrified 60 yr old grease that had to be almost chiseled off, very scary on 60 yr old paint, didn't get it all yet but did get most of it. Found a few more cool details.
Took it to the Velocirque show, rode it about 9 mi. and it was good, love this bike.
This bike was covered at every mechanical intersection with petrified 60 yr old grease that had to be almost chiseled off, very scary on 60 yr old paint, didn't get it all yet but did get most of it. Found a few more cool details.
Took it to the Velocirque show, rode it about 9 mi. and it was good, love this bike.
Last edited by merziac; 06-17-18 at 10:44 AM.
#68
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Full on pics later.
#69
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Likes For merziac:
#70
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We're just getting started.
#71
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Lot's more to come.
#72
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Love it! You're making great progress. So different from the grab bag components it came with.
#73
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Tx, it's pretty close to where it will end up for this version. There will be other ones in the future. I was lucky to have some good stuff in stock for the Velocult show, turned out good and rode ok on the 9 mi ride.
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