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1958 Schwinn Paramount P-12

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1958 Schwinn Paramount P-12

Old 06-11-18, 06:54 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by clubman View Post


Best accessory ever. What a lovely bike. Angles look pretty racy to boot.
Agreed, Paramounts were the real deal, feared and revered from the beginning, always a force to be reckoned with.
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Old 06-11-18, 07:51 PM
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The Cyclone derailleur looks right at home on there. A decidedly handsome bicycle my friend!
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Old 06-11-18, 08:39 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
...None of the part numbers on it correlate with info that I can find so who knows, maybe they are internal code.
Here is some information on the Schwinn part numbers from 1950s and 1962 Schwinn parts catalogs:

Stem no. 7535 (Schwinn Paramount sliding adjustable stem):



Handlebar no. 7821-A Maes type aluminum handlebar (the "A" indicates a version in aluminum, the standard version was steel)



No. 4942 and no. 4939 hubs:



No. 7084 saddle (Brooks B17 champion narrow):


Hope this helps!

Last edited by Metacortex; 06-11-18 at 08:49 PM.
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Old 06-11-18, 09:08 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
Some more crappy pics.



Why is the initial picture taken on some weird angle against a beige wall in nearly bright light. These are the WTF pics that I would never take.
About four of the pics are good. the rest look like I need to hang upside down to figure them out.
Anyway it looks amazingly clean, and surely has value.

I see some better pics, and a picture of an airplane. Okay.

So how long would this sit on CL for $2500..............

Last edited by StarBiker; 06-11-18 at 09:15 PM.
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Old 06-11-18, 11:10 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by StarBiker View Post


Why is the initial picture taken on some weird angle against a beige wall in nearly bright light. These are the WTF pics that I would never take.
About four of the pics are good. the rest look like I need to hang upside down to figure them out.
Anyway it looks amazingly clean, and surely has value.

I see some better pics, and a picture of an airplane. Okay.

So how long would this sit on CL for $2500..............
Hard to say, it lasted a couple of weeks at 2k while I got my stuff together, lucky for me. I think it was easily worth that considering how few and far between these are and how complete this one is despite RD, crank, bars and saddle that I don't count since it is plenty close enough for me.

The wall pic and ones like it are sellers pics and what I had to go on, plenty of them and any question answered that I asked. Great seller and a big part of how I got here with this.

Last edited by merziac; 06-11-18 at 11:24 PM.
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Old 06-11-18, 11:27 PM
  #56  
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What a gorgeous frame and what a fun bike all around. I and very glad this deserving beauty has found a good home with someone who appreciates it.
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Old 06-11-18, 11:55 PM
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So you paid. And Portland has become absurdly expensive.
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Old 06-12-18, 12:03 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Metacortex View Post
Here is some information on the Schwinn part numbers from 1950s and 1962 Schwinn parts catalogs:

Stem no. 7535 (Schwinn Paramount sliding adjustable stem):



Handlebar no. 7821-A Maes type aluminum handlebar (the "A" indicates a version in aluminum, the standard version was steel)



No. 4942 and no. 4939 hubs:



No. 7084 saddle (Brooks B17 champion narrow):


Hope this helps!
Holy crap! Thank you so much, obviously my search skills suck.

So this info muddies the water a bit. The label lists Schwinn hubs that are track I think that would not have been used on this one. It has Campy hubs that are very similar with alloy flanges and are dated 57 so are either original for this one or were installed at the get go, what do I know.

With the 26X9 GEAR # and track hubs it seems like this label was confused at best, the stem, post, seat, model and colors are right.

Again Richard Schwinn was adamant that the 26X9 was nonsense and he is probably right but there is more of a story here somewhere, really seems like this was a cluster of some sort until it showed up and was either right or otherwise and may have something to do with how it stayed like this for me to get it.

However it shakes out I believe this is one of the rarest examples of these you will see that one of us could get our hands on, again what do I know.

I know this, I am damn glad I got this, it was a bargain, period.

Last edited by merziac; 06-12-18 at 12:56 AM.
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Old 06-12-18, 12:31 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Lovenutz View Post
The Cyclone derailleur looks right at home on there. A decidedly handsome bicycle my friend!
Thank you sir, and while I completely agree about the Cyclone (easily one of my favorites) this will be sporting a much more correct RD soon.
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Old 06-12-18, 12:34 AM
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Also want to take this opportunity to thank everyone for chiming in on this, please keep it coming, I think there is a lot more to learn here.

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Old 06-12-18, 01:10 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by StarBiker View Post
So you paid. And Portland has become absurdly expensive.
Yeah I paid, but not quite that much, Portland, absurd, expensive, duh.

Been that way and getting more so by the minute, whats your point?

Oh and it was priced about as far away as you can get in Washington DC.
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Old 06-12-18, 01:13 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by bikingshearer View Post
What a gorgeous frame and what a fun bike all around. I and very glad this deserving beauty has found a good home with someone who appreciates it.
Tx, hope I can do it justice somehow, sure going to try.

Thread on your 67?
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Old 06-12-18, 06:27 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
The label is from this bike as far as we know, s/n matches albeit handwritten, size, style and color also. Richard Schwinn says there's info on it he has never seen and when I floated the inch pitch theory he was adamant that it had nothing to do with this bike. All else lines up pretty well with what we have, wheels, levers, brakes, FD, HS, stem and seatpost. None of the part numbers on it correlate with info that I can find so who knows, maybe they are internal code.

Charlie Kopp had no info to add but thought it was pretty cool, they also claim to be the second oldest bike shop in the world.
You probably spoke to Charlie Kuhn, the current owner or co-owner; his father bought the shop from Kopp many years ago. Their current location is a very short distance from the location on the tag, and the place still has the vibe of a very old shop. If you ask, they let you go upstairs, where there's a jumble of museum quality bikes and parts arranged in no particular order, no labels, no price tags, and so on. I'm sure he'd be happy to sell anything up there for the right price, and he generally knows what the right price is.

I worked in a shop rather like that in 1980-1; a very old shop that had been located in downtown Washington, and had moved several miles out to Wisconsin Ave many years before I worked there. The owner, when I worked there, was the daughter of the man who started the shop. The stuff in the store rooms was amazing and bewildering, especially the older stuff that had (for one reason or another) not sold. Many NOS bikes still in boxes, but all the boxes had been opened, and the older ones were all missing a part or two. Often there was a line through some part of the description on the box-- for example, "red" crossed out, and "black" written in by hand.

There's no point in speculating what changes your Paramount has been through, but no harm in it either; obviously it came from Kopps, and it shipped from the factory with wrong information on the label. There's nothing unusual about that.
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Old 06-12-18, 09:11 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
You probably spoke to Charlie Kuhn, the current owner or co-owner; his father bought the shop from Kopp many years ago. Their current location is a very short distance from the location on the tag, and the place still has the vibe of a very old shop. If you ask, they let you go upstairs, where there's a jumble of museum quality bikes and parts arranged in no particular order, no labels, no price tags, and so on. I'm sure he'd be happy to sell anything up there for the right price, and he generally knows what the right price is.

I worked in a shop rather like that in 1980-1; a very old shop that had been located in downtown Washington, and had moved several miles out to Wisconsin Ave many years before I worked there. The owner, when I worked there, was the daughter of the man who started the shop. The stuff in the store rooms was amazing and bewildering, especially the older stuff that had (for one reason or another) not sold. Many NOS bikes still in boxes, but all the boxes had been opened, and the older ones were all missing a part or two. Often there was a line through some part of the description on the box-- for example, "red" crossed out, and "black" written in by hand.

There's no point in speculating what changes your Paramount has been through, but no harm in it either; obviously it came from Kopps, and it shipped from the factory with wrong information on the label. There's nothing unusual about that.
Yep, you're right, Kuhn not Kopp, my bad. Tx @Metacortex for coming along and solving most of the part# mystery. I had done quite a bit of digging and had found some of the info with old part #'s but it was useless without the cross reference.
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Old 06-12-18, 12:22 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
Tx, hope I can do it justice somehow, sure going to try.

Thread on your 67?
You are already doing it justice.

As for my 1967 Paramount, it's not worth a new thread of its own, so I'll temporarily hijack yours. Serial No. F711. When I got (F/F/HS) about 15 years ago - it had what looked like big bleach blotches on it and it was yellow - not my fave color. So had it repainted a color I like. I like to say that charcoal grey was not on the Schwinn palate, but it should have been.

it is now my commuter. Here's a pic showing how it is set up now. . Not as pretty as yours, but I like how it looks. It works nicely for my purposes.

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Old 06-13-18, 10:42 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by bikingshearer View Post
You are already doing it justice.

As for my 1967 Paramount, it's not worth a new thread of its own, so I'll temporarily hijack yours. Serial No. F711. When I got (F/F/HS) about 15 years ago - it had what looked like big bleach blotches on it and it was yellow - not my fave color. So had it repainted a color I like. I like to say that charcoal grey was not on the Schwinn palate, but it should have been.

it is now my commuter. Here's a pic showing how it is set up now. . Not as pretty as yours, but I like how it looks. It works nicely for my purposes.

Looks good, agree on the color it's a good one and you've got what appears to be just what you need, good job.
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Old 06-17-18, 10:41 AM
  #67  
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#913 is backdated (updated with more correct parts) and cleaned up quite a bit, Campy three arm steel square taper GS? crank with Magistroni alloy chainrings, plain chrome steel bars with correct Weinmann levers and a very close to correct Campy GS rd.

This bike was covered at every mechanical intersection with petrified 60 yr old grease that had to be almost chiseled off, very scary on 60 yr old paint, didn't get it all yet but did get most of it. Found a few more cool details.

Took it to the Velocirque show, rode it about 9 mi. and it was good, love this bike.










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Old 06-17-18, 10:43 AM
  #68  
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Full on pics later.
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Old 06-19-18, 12:20 AM
  #69  
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Calling @Kactus, you asked for more, here we go.








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Old 06-19-18, 12:26 AM
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We're just getting started.






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Old 06-19-18, 12:28 AM
  #71  
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Lot's more to come.
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Old 06-19-18, 06:37 AM
  #72  
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Love it! You're making great progress. So different from the grab bag components it came with.
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Old 06-19-18, 09:21 AM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by rocks in head View Post
Love it! You're making great progress. So different from the grab bag components it came with.
Tx, it's pretty close to where it will end up for this version. There will be other ones in the future. I was lucky to have some good stuff in stock for the Velocult show, turned out good and rode ok on the 9 mi ride.
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Old 06-19-18, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
Calling @Kactus, you asked for more, here we go.


Thanks! And on my Birthday even... what a nice gift.
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Old 06-19-18, 10:52 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by Kactus View Post
Thanks! And on my Birthday even... what a nice gift.
My pleasure, Happy Birthday!
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