How Does Chain Length Affect SI?
06-19-18, 12:58 PM
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It's a metaphor. How do the chains (of capitalism) affect the Solomon Islands (SI)? OP is trying to start a discussion regarding how the economic imperialism of western nations contributed to the widespread economic, political and social instability experienced by many former colonial possession upon gaining Independence, which is illustrated by the ethnic violence between the Guales and Malaitans in the late 1990s, and how modern day expansion of Chinese business interests continues to contribute to the instability in the region.
When OP refers to splitting the chain, and then shortening it, he is referring to the frequent need for deployment of Australian and New Zealand troops to the region to quell simmering ethnic tensions. Yes, it solves the immediate problem, but fails to address the underlying conditions leading to the problems in the first place.
When OP refers to splitting the chain, and then shortening it, he is referring to the frequent need for deployment of Australian and New Zealand troops to the region to quell simmering ethnic tensions. Yes, it solves the immediate problem, but fails to address the underlying conditions leading to the problems in the first place.
06-19-18, 06:41 PM
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It's a metaphor. How do the chains (of capitalism) affect the Solomon Islands (SI)? OP is trying to start a discussion regarding how the economic imperialism of western nations contributed to the widespread economic, political and social instability experienced by many former colonial possession upon gaining Independence, which is illustrated by the ethnic violence between the Guales and Malaitans in the late 1990s, and how modern day expansion of Chinese business interests continues to contribute to the instability in the region.
When OP refers to splitting the chain, and then shortening it, he is referring to the frequent need for deployment of Australian and New Zealand troops to the region to quell simmering ethnic tensions. Yes, it solves the immediate problem, but fails to address the underlying conditions leading to the problems in the first place.
When OP refers to splitting the chain, and then shortening it, he is referring to the frequent need for deployment of Australian and New Zealand troops to the region to quell simmering ethnic tensions. Yes, it solves the immediate problem, but fails to address the underlying conditions leading to the problems in the first place.
06-20-18, 03:12 PM
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06-20-18, 03:23 PM
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International System of Units (SI, abbreviated from the French Système International (d'unités))
06-22-18, 04:42 AM
#31
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Interesting that the OP never responded. I think this is a question that can’t be answered.
06-22-18, 07:07 AM
#32
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I just measured the side plates on my 8, 9, 10, and 11 speed chains. They vary a little by brand but are all very close to the same thickness. It’s the bushings between the plates are what vary in size. That’s why the myth the narrow chains break more often is just that, a myth.
Last edited by busdriver1959; 06-22-18 at 11:15 AM.
06-22-18, 09:38 AM
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he responded in a build your bike thread in mechanics he meant SIS so shimano indexed
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06-22-18, 10:10 AM
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06-22-18, 10:30 AM
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Si is the Spanish word for yes. It is also the French word for yes if in response to a negative question.
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06-22-18, 12:06 PM
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I just measured the side plates on my 8, 9, 10, and 11 speed chains. They vary a little by brand but are all very close to the same thickness. It’s the bushings between the plates are what vary in size. That’s why the myth the narrow chains break more often is just that, a myth.
7 speed chain bushing - .092" 10 speed chain bushing - .090"
7 speed side plate thickness - .049" 10 speed side plate thickness - .030"
The bushings can't have gotten narrower because chainring teeth haven't gotten narrower. You can run an 11 speed chain on a 1980s six speed chainring.
06-22-18, 01:31 PM
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It's a metaphor. How do the chains (of capitalism) affect the Solomon Islands (SI)? OP is trying to start a discussion regarding how the economic imperialism of western nations contributed to the widespread economic, political and social instability experienced by many former colonial possession upon gaining Independence, which is illustrated by the ethnic violence between the Guales and Malaitans in the late 1990s, and how modern day expansion of Chinese business interests continues to contribute to the instability in the region.
When OP refers to splitting the chain, and then shortening it, he is referring to the frequent need for deployment of Australian and New Zealand troops to the region to quell simmering ethnic tensions. Yes, it solves the immediate problem, but fails to address the underlying conditions leading to the problems in the first place.
When OP refers to splitting the chain, and then shortening it, he is referring to the frequent need for deployment of Australian and New Zealand troops to the region to quell simmering ethnic tensions. Yes, it solves the immediate problem, but fails to address the underlying conditions leading to the problems in the first place.
06-22-18, 01:41 PM
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Yes, you can. But then you risk jamming the chain between the rings when shifting between them. Better to use a 7-speed chain with a vintage crank, if at all possible.
06-22-18, 01:56 PM
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None of which has anything to do with bushing width, which was the point I was making - 11 speed chains will work fine on any multispeed crank's chainring tooth profile going back to those for 5 speed chains. The chains got narrower by thinning the plates, which necessitated different pins because of the decreased contact.
06-22-18, 02:18 PM
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None of which has anything to do with bushing width
06-22-18, 02:24 PM
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You can jam a chain of any width in the open gap between spider arms. I just don't think the danger of doing so with 11 speed chains is that much greater than it was with your 9 speed chain or a 7 speed chain.
06-22-18, 02:44 PM
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06-22-18, 02:50 PM
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The wider chainring spacing of today's compact cranksets is not an issue since the big ring now has it's inner surface heavily ramped and thus further offset from the plane of the teeth than on traditional chainrings.
The actual space between the small ring's teeth and the inner surface of the big ring at the outer radius of the small ring is what will affect the possibility of the chain slipping between rings.
I've retrofit modern 9s chain to a lot of very old bikes, some work perfectly while some allow a narrower chain to jam between rings or to merely skate along the tips of the teeth, depending on the model of crankset and to a seemingly lesser degree on the size difference of the two rings.
I once had a new 9s chain almost immediately get stuck between shimano 600 6s-era chainrings and gore the chainstay of a brand new Cannondale frame, so won't easily forget that.
I have yet to see a modern chain fit too tightly on a vintage bike's chainring teeth, but some "semi-modern" chains (from the 7s era) did actually have that issue because of too-narrow bushings. Those were brands no longer offered so of no concern today, and I suppose they were having difficulty maintaining a large enough inside width as they had to redesign the outside width for the then-new Ultra or 7s cog spacing.
The actual space between the small ring's teeth and the inner surface of the big ring at the outer radius of the small ring is what will affect the possibility of the chain slipping between rings.
I've retrofit modern 9s chain to a lot of very old bikes, some work perfectly while some allow a narrower chain to jam between rings or to merely skate along the tips of the teeth, depending on the model of crankset and to a seemingly lesser degree on the size difference of the two rings.
I once had a new 9s chain almost immediately get stuck between shimano 600 6s-era chainrings and gore the chainstay of a brand new Cannondale frame, so won't easily forget that.
I have yet to see a modern chain fit too tightly on a vintage bike's chainring teeth, but some "semi-modern" chains (from the 7s era) did actually have that issue because of too-narrow bushings. Those were brands no longer offered so of no concern today, and I suppose they were having difficulty maintaining a large enough inside width as they had to redesign the outside width for the then-new Ultra or 7s cog spacing.
Last edited by dddd; 06-22-18 at 02:56 PM.
06-22-18, 02:51 PM
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This is a bit like the command line unix/linux guys refusing to use a GUI editor. and VI is a terrible editor (fighting words for some 
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06-22-18, 03:25 PM
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06-22-18, 09:42 PM
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06-25-18, 02:15 AM
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All this fuss over a typo
When I started this thread I was actually expecting a technical response. Its like being back at university, where every double-entendre is seized upon, and the original question is lost.
As I think everybody knew I should have typed SIS, but clearly no-one has a credible explanation. Please prove me wrong
As I think everybody knew I should have typed SIS, but clearly no-one has a credible explanation. Please prove me wrong
06-25-18, 03:09 AM
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When I started this thread I was actually expecting a technical response. Its like being back at university, where every double-entendre is seized upon, and the original question is lost.
As I think everybody knew I should have typed SIS, but clearly no-one has a credible explanation. Please prove me wrong
As I think everybody knew I should have typed SIS, but clearly no-one has a credible explanation. Please prove me wrong
Despite that, a few of us did have technical discussion about shifting accuracy and chain length. Did you read it?
06-25-18, 03:56 AM
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This was not a question about shifting accuracy, although the conversation went that way. It was about why chain length, not its specification, was the sole factor in preventing access to all gears in such a major way, by reducing the throw distance of the derailleur.
Since I deal with vintage bikes in the main, SIS is considered modern. Mostly I build with friction shifters, although I do like to replace the downtube shifters with handlebar shifters. Since mostly, I am restoring the frame, then brazing a double guide on the frame downtube, and cutting off the old stubs is my preferred route.
The SIS technology may now be superceded, but that does not impact on its name, unless you want to start calling SIS a "legacy" product.
Since I deal with vintage bikes in the main, SIS is considered modern. Mostly I build with friction shifters, although I do like to replace the downtube shifters with handlebar shifters. Since mostly, I am restoring the frame, then brazing a double guide on the frame downtube, and cutting off the old stubs is my preferred route.
The SIS technology may now be superceded, but that does not impact on its name, unless you want to start calling SIS a "legacy" product.
