seedsbelize 

I'd like to try one of their Ishiwata frames. The 4xx I believe. I am really partial to racing geometry. Do any of those have, or approach that geometry? Other Ishiwata bikes?
TIA

Hobbiano 

I've got two mid-eighties Trek 400's and an earlier 412. They are more of a sport touring geometry. One of the 400's is True Temper and the other is Tange Mangaloy 2001. The 412 is Ishiwata 022.
The also made a 420 (touring geom.) and a 460 (racing geom.)
Check out the vintage Trek site for catalogs with specifications on all these models. Vintage Trek Bicycle Catalogs and Bike Brochures, Fisher, Klein LeMond
They were all pretty nice frames with so-so components. The earlier ones had nicer components, I think,

Hudson308 

@JohnDThompson or perhaps @unterhausen will be along presently, but I would agree that the 4xx may not be what you're looking for. My '80 410 has what I would also call "sport touring" geometry. The '79 530 on the other hand, looks more like what you're seeking in Ishiwata.

thumpism 

I have one of the 510 framesets with the sport touring geometry, so the 530 as mentioned above is likely what you want but I suspect that those are very hard to find. Mine is pretty whippy so I don't know how good it would be for loaded touring, and tire width is limited to 30C. I wonder how the 530's chacteristics might differ.

I believe those 510 and 530 framesets used the same main triangles with different forks and different rear triangles to provide the frame differences.

RiddleOfSteel

To pick 1980 as an example, about the only thing all Treks of that year (similar to other Treks of that era) shared was the head and seat tube angles. The 730/930 had less fork rake and lower bottom brackets, not to mention the requisite shorter chain stays. Ishiwata 022 tubing is nice - with Columbus SL specs. A 1981 model 510 (still sport touring geometry) had full Ishiwata 022 throughout.

This is making me want to pick up the 1980 410 frameset that's been hanging in the warehouse of the non-profit bike shop. Dark steel blue, complete with some paint bubbling, but decals in tact, including the 022 on the seat tube. I go back and forth....gah, need to put it away for a future build (and I know the parts I'd grace it with!).

JohnDThompson 

If you want race geometry, the 560 and 660 were the lower-cost racing geometry models.

jlaw

As others have said - the 410 (mine is 1984) is a nice middle-ground between racing and touring - very comfortable IMO.

seedsbelize 

Thanks all. As I think about it, racing geometry is not the be all end all. Ishiwata is, in this case. I am absolutely in love with my 930, and am ready to try something a little different.

The Golden Boy 

Unless yours has been re-decaled- it's an 85 model. (probably brazed in 84 for the 85 model year)

StarBiker

660 was third from the Top in 89'. Here's mine. Damn camera always exaggerates my seat position.
Defiantly aggressive and definitely a crit bike.

thumpism 

All this agonizing. You've shown remarkable restraint and have impressed us, so now will you just go buy the damn bike?

jlaw

Correct! I'm getting my years mixed-up - just bought a 1984 Trek 620, the 410 is 1985.

The Golden Boy 

I think he needs to put a little forethought in before he can go into acquisition mode, just due to his location.

seedsbelize 

Are you talking to me?
There is no agonizing.

seedsbelize 

This all began when I got home with the 930, built it up, and found out just what I've been missing all these years of not riding top quality bikes. I've since read good things about their Ishiwata frames, and would like to try one. No hurry though, due to my location. I do look for them in Mexico, and occasionally find something worthwhile. But the pricing of used bikes here is so wacked....

StarBiker

Lotus also used Ishiwata. Many high quality Lotus bikes get very little love on this site.

seedsbelize 

Good to know^^^^