Mercier / Bob Jackson quality>
11-23-18 | 11:20 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Full Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 396
Likes: 70
From: Oceanside, CA
Bikes: 2017 Lynskey Sportive Disc, 2021 Lynskey Pro29, 1977 Schwinn Super LeTour 12.2
Mercian / Bob Jackson quality>
Apologies if this isn't the right sub-forum. Please move as you like.
I'm looking at the possibility of organizing a small, Eroica-style event. Probably not as rigid, and more of a Pacific Northwest "Let's all drink beer and ride old or old-looking bikes" (probably not in that order) thing. I view this as an excuse to build up a new bike, and I've gotten all excited scouring NOS 80s frame listings.
I've also been considering buying a new frame that LOOKED old, which isn't as sexy, but probably makes a lot more sense. And I've always liked British bikes and pretty paint jobs, so naturally, I wound up and Bob Jackson and Mercian. I loved their older stuff. Is the new stuff comparable in quality? I ask because for the price of one of the Taiwan-made Rivendells, I can upgrade the tubeset, choose custom colors in really pretty paint, and even have money left over for chrome. Plus, those steep seat tube angles make me happy.
Where would modern frames fall, quality-wise, in the Velo Orange > Rivendell (TW) > Rodriguez > Nobliette continuum?
I'm looking at the possibility of organizing a small, Eroica-style event. Probably not as rigid, and more of a Pacific Northwest "Let's all drink beer and ride old or old-looking bikes" (probably not in that order) thing. I view this as an excuse to build up a new bike, and I've gotten all excited scouring NOS 80s frame listings.
I've also been considering buying a new frame that LOOKED old, which isn't as sexy, but probably makes a lot more sense. And I've always liked British bikes and pretty paint jobs, so naturally, I wound up and Bob Jackson and Mercian. I loved their older stuff. Is the new stuff comparable in quality? I ask because for the price of one of the Taiwan-made Rivendells, I can upgrade the tubeset, choose custom colors in really pretty paint, and even have money left over for chrome. Plus, those steep seat tube angles make me happy.
Where would modern frames fall, quality-wise, in the Velo Orange > Rivendell (TW) > Rodriguez > Nobliette continuum?
Last edited by cormacf; 11-23-18 at 01:56 PM. Reason: Typo
11-23-18 | 01:02 PM
#2
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,612
Likes: 921
From: So Cal, for now
Bikes: 1974 Bob Jackson - Nuovo Record, Brooks Pro, Clips & Straps
In all my decades of riding, I have never had a frame whose quality was not worthy of riding.
My 1974-1975 Bob Jackson is great! I'm the original owner. I don't know how many miles I have on mine (a lot) but it was good quality when I bought it and it has proven reliable over decades of use.
My more modern frames are also great!
I think the lighter, racing-oriented frames like my Bob Jackson are more lively to ride but if you want bullet-proof, with clearance for fat tires and fenders, racing frames are not the thing to buy.
Do you want a collector's item, a project bike, a status symbol,..? What do you want to show up with at your event? It's up to you.
* I vote for Bob Jackson over Mercian, as I love the coat of arms (head badge).
P.S. - Your title uses "Mercier" but your post uses Mercian. I think you meant Mercian, correct?
My 1974-1975 Bob Jackson is great! I'm the original owner. I don't know how many miles I have on mine (a lot) but it was good quality when I bought it and it has proven reliable over decades of use.
My more modern frames are also great!
I think the lighter, racing-oriented frames like my Bob Jackson are more lively to ride but if you want bullet-proof, with clearance for fat tires and fenders, racing frames are not the thing to buy.
Do you want a collector's item, a project bike, a status symbol,..? What do you want to show up with at your event? It's up to you.
* I vote for Bob Jackson over Mercian, as I love the coat of arms (head badge).
P.S. - Your title uses "Mercier" but your post uses Mercian. I think you meant Mercian, correct?
Last edited by Bad Lag; 11-23-18 at 01:10 PM.
11-23-18 | 01:16 PM
#3
In the ‘72 to ‘74 time frame the shop I worked for imported a number of Bob Jackson frames.
I owned one that was purchased there.
Great chrome and paint.
seat tube needed dressing.
The bottom bracket... mine was one of the many that the bottom bracket we suspected had been distorted in a vise while being built.
It required chasing the threads and facing the ends.
over 1mm required to be removed to be anywhere close to having the fixed cup Seat with 300 degrees of engagement.
I owned one that was purchased there.
Great chrome and paint.
seat tube needed dressing.
The bottom bracket... mine was one of the many that the bottom bracket we suspected had been distorted in a vise while being built.
It required chasing the threads and facing the ends.
over 1mm required to be removed to be anywhere close to having the fixed cup Seat with 300 degrees of engagement.
11-23-18 | 01:59 PM
#4
Thread Starter
Full Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 396
Likes: 70
From: Oceanside, CA
Bikes: 2017 Lynskey Sportive Disc, 2021 Lynskey Pro29, 1977 Schwinn Super LeTour 12.2
In all my decades of riding, I have never had a frame whose quality was not worthy of riding.
My 1974-1975 Bob Jackson is great! I'm the original owner. I don't know how many miles I have on mine (a lot) but it was good quality when I bought it and it has proven reliable over decades of use.
My more modern frames are also great!
I think the lighter, racing-oriented frames like my Bob Jackson are more lively to ride but if you want bullet-proof, with clearance for fat tires and fenders, racing frames are not the thing to buy.
Do you want a collector's item, a project bike, a status symbol,..? What do you want to show up with at your event? It's up to you.
* I vote for Bob Jackson over Mercian, as I love the coat of arms (head badge).
P.S. - Your title uses "Mercier" but your post uses Mercian. I think you meant Mercian, correct?
My 1974-1975 Bob Jackson is great! I'm the original owner. I don't know how many miles I have on mine (a lot) but it was good quality when I bought it and it has proven reliable over decades of use.
My more modern frames are also great!
I think the lighter, racing-oriented frames like my Bob Jackson are more lively to ride but if you want bullet-proof, with clearance for fat tires and fenders, racing frames are not the thing to buy.
Do you want a collector's item, a project bike, a status symbol,..? What do you want to show up with at your event? It's up to you.
* I vote for Bob Jackson over Mercian, as I love the coat of arms (head badge).
P.S. - Your title uses "Mercier" but your post uses Mercian. I think you meant Mercian, correct?
I just want something pretty with lugs that rides nicely. The Rivendell would be great, but for very long rides of 100-plus Miles, the geometry just isn't right for me. The Bob Jackson audax actually seems to fit me really well. I just didn't know if the newer frames had the same quality as the older ones, and there aren't a lot of them here in Seattle for me to check out.
11-23-18 | 02:55 PM
#5
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 16,199
Likes: 9,586
From: PDX
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
thanks. I did mean mercian. I'll correct that typo right away.
I just want something pretty with lugs that rides nicely. The Rivendell would be great, but for very long rides of 100-plus Miles, the geometry just isn't right for me. The Bob Jackson audax actually seems to fit me really well. I just didn't know if the newer frames had the same quality as the older ones, and there aren't a lot of them here in Seattle for me to check out.
I just want something pretty with lugs that rides nicely. The Rivendell would be great, but for very long rides of 100-plus Miles, the geometry just isn't right for me. The Bob Jackson audax actually seems to fit me really well. I just didn't know if the newer frames had the same quality as the older ones, and there aren't a lot of them here in Seattle for me to check out.
Our very own [MENTION=381793]gugie[/MENTION] can also offer advice and build you one too.
And a slew of builders in PDX, Bob Kamzelski @ Bantam bikeworks, Dave Levy @ ticycles, Aherne, Iglehart and many others.
Last edited by merziac; 11-23-18 at 03:00 PM.
11-23-18 | 05:19 PM
#6
Sunshine
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 18,756
Likes: 10,316
From: Des Moines, IA
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
as for Bob Jackson- I certainly wouldn't turn away an 853 road frame from them.
11-23-18 | 07:16 PM
#7
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 10,389
Likes: 10,155
From: Utah
Bikes: Paletti,Pinarello Monviso,Duell Vienna,Giordana XL Super,Lemond Maillot Juane.& custom,PDG Paramount,Fuji Opus III,Davidson Impulse,Pashley Guv'nor,Evans,Fishlips,Y-Foil,Softride, Tetra Pro, CAAD8 Optimo,
Nothing wrong with BJ or Mercian, great marques to be sure. I would research in person Davidson, Stevenson, Rodreguez and Thompson based on your locale, they are all in your neck of the woods, all do fantastic work and should have plenty of input to offer.
Our very own [MENTION=381793]gugie[/MENTION] can also offer advice and build you one too.
And a slew of builders in PDX, Bob Kamzelski @ Bantam bikeworks, Dave Levy @ ticycles, Aherne, Iglehart and many others.
Our very own [MENTION=381793]gugie[/MENTION] can also offer advice and build you one too.
And a slew of builders in PDX, Bob Kamzelski @ Bantam bikeworks, Dave Levy @ ticycles, Aherne, Iglehart and many others.
__________________
Steel is real...and comfy.
Steel is real...and comfy.
11-23-18 | 07:56 PM
#8
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,190
Likes: 727
Bob the Jackson lives at my house. While I cannot speak to current production standards, my now 20 year old Jacson still mskes me smile every time I ride it. Not all is prefect; it was purchased at a time when a 25c was big so while I can fit a 28 on the front, the brake bridge prevents the use of anything bigger than a 25. So your thought of the Audax sound like a good pick as far as geometry is concerned. Bulid of the Jackson was easy, Threads were clean and Bb faced well. And 20 years later, paint still looks good.
So I'd buy another one. That is, If I did not live in the PNW, which I didn't at the time Bob came into my life. What I like about C and V is that it keeps alive a time when bikes were on a personal scale and not the end product of a supply chain. So talk to your local builders first. Give them a shot. Then if you still can't find something you like, then buy the Jackson.
So I'd buy another one. That is, If I did not live in the PNW, which I didn't at the time Bob came into my life. What I like about C and V is that it keeps alive a time when bikes were on a personal scale and not the end product of a supply chain. So talk to your local builders first. Give them a shot. Then if you still can't find something you like, then buy the Jackson.
Last edited by Mr. Spadoni; 11-23-18 at 09:44 PM. Reason: Spelling
11-23-18 | 09:36 PM
#9
Thread Starter
Full Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 396
Likes: 70
From: Oceanside, CA
Bikes: 2017 Lynskey Sportive Disc, 2021 Lynskey Pro29, 1977 Schwinn Super LeTour 12.2
My apologies. Should have been "less than signs, going in the opposite direction:
Velo Orange > Rivendell (TW) > Rodriguez > Nobliette
Velo Orange > Rivendell (TW) > Rodriguez > Nobliette
11-24-18 | 12:21 AM
#10
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 251
Likes: 149
From: Desert Southwest
Might you consider a used Mercian or Jackson frame?
I have seen some lovely Mercian and Bob Jackson 1970s-1980s frames and bicycles offered for sale in the past several years.
How would you feel about a used frame, with excellent condition original paint, in your preferred size?
The cost of second-hand Mercian and Jackson frames, if one is a careful shopper, can often be less than half the price of a Joe Bell professional paint job.
How would you feel about a used frame, with excellent condition original paint, in your preferred size?
The cost of second-hand Mercian and Jackson frames, if one is a careful shopper, can often be less than half the price of a Joe Bell professional paint job.
11-24-18 | 09:26 AM
#11
ambulatory senior
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,451
Likes: 4,519
From: Peoria Il
Bikes: Austro Daimler modified by Gugie! Raleigh Professional and lots of other bikes.
I bought a bob jackson world tourist frameset a year and a half ago. Its excellent. Ready to build, no facing or tapping needed. The prices are right for sure.
11-24-18 | 02:32 PM
#12
Senior Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,696
Likes: 3,426
From: Greenwood SC USA
Bikes: 2002 Mercian Vincitore, 1982 Mercian Colorado, 1976 Puch Royal X, 1973 Raleigh Competition, 1971 Gitane Tour de France and others
It seems to me that Mercian’s quality has always been excellent; the received wisdom at one point was that not all Bob Jacksons are created equal and that some were allegedly “dodgy,” though I have no firsthand knowledge of that.
I can tell you that I love my Mercians, both a 2002 Vincitore custom road fixed gear that I ordered and the 1982 Mercian Colorado that began life as an issued bike for the old Harvest/Mercian/The Spoke team out of Boulder. My riding buddy is equally pleased with his all-road fixed gear based on a King of Mercia and his 80s Vincitore Sports-tourer.
I had a full-blown Rivendell Road Custom that taught me I don’t really want to ride OS tubing for any distance; it was a very stable bike but I never felt speedy on it. My Vincitore built with normal diameter 531C feels quicker, even with 72 degree parallel angles.
How Eroica-ish do you want to go? Classical British bikes for the road were often 72 parallel or 71 seat 73 head angled beasts ....
I can tell you that I love my Mercians, both a 2002 Vincitore custom road fixed gear that I ordered and the 1982 Mercian Colorado that began life as an issued bike for the old Harvest/Mercian/The Spoke team out of Boulder. My riding buddy is equally pleased with his all-road fixed gear based on a King of Mercia and his 80s Vincitore Sports-tourer.
I had a full-blown Rivendell Road Custom that taught me I don’t really want to ride OS tubing for any distance; it was a very stable bike but I never felt speedy on it. My Vincitore built with normal diameter 531C feels quicker, even with 72 degree parallel angles.
How Eroica-ish do you want to go? Classical British bikes for the road were often 72 parallel or 71 seat 73 head angled beasts ....
11-25-18 | 10:30 PM
#13
Crawlin' up, flyin' down
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,772
Likes: 4,435
From: Democratic Peoples' Republic of Berkeley
Bikes: 1967 Paramount; 1982-ish Ron Cooper; 1978 Eisentraut "A"; two mid-1960s Cinelli Speciale Corsas; and others in various stages of non-rideability.
Like repechage, I, too, had a Bob Jackson (1974ish) that was kind of messed up in the bottom bracket. I ended up having a shop glue a Phil Wood BB in with red Loctite. Worked great until the bike was stolen 15 years later.
Once the BB issue was solved, it rode well. It was gorgeous, too, red with white head tube and seat tube panels and white block "Bob Jackson" decals. (Personally, I think those look better than the slanted letter graphics.)
The word was that there was a time - not sure when, but later than the mid-70s - when Jackson retired, the quality suffered, and he came out of retirement to put things to right. No personal knowledge, and I can't even remember where I heard this. But from what I have heard, anything after 2000 - and probably back to 1995 or maybe even 1990 - will be well made and serve you well.
Once the BB issue was solved, it rode well. It was gorgeous, too, red with white head tube and seat tube panels and white block "Bob Jackson" decals. (Personally, I think those look better than the slanted letter graphics.)The word was that there was a time - not sure when, but later than the mid-70s - when Jackson retired, the quality suffered, and he came out of retirement to put things to right. No personal knowledge, and I can't even remember where I heard this. But from what I have heard, anything after 2000 - and probably back to 1995 or maybe even 1990 - will be well made and serve you well.
__________________
"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
11-25-18 | 11:12 PM
#14
Senior Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,036
Likes: 550
From: Pacific Northwest
Bikes: ‘87 Marinoni SLX Sports Tourer, ‘79 Miyata 912 by Gugificazione
I tried to love a Rivendell Rambouillet for a decade. It’s gone to a new home. Like [MENTION=342124]rustystrings61[/MENTION], I decided that it’s OS tubes, even in the 62-64cm frames that fit me, aren’t to my taste. My standard-size tubed ‘79 Miyata 912 and ‘87 Marinoni (Columbus SLX) are both fine, fun rides for any distance.
I recently rebuilt an early 80’s Rodriguez for a friend that is quite lovely, and another friend is thrilled with her new Rodriguez. Have you talked with them about building you a bike? I’d put them above Rivendell for fun riding quality. And I’ve heard nothing but compliments about Nobilette. No personal experience with VO frames, but I recall reading less flattering comments about them on this forum.
What size frame fits you, [MENTION=409384]cormacf[/MENTION]? There are lots of C&V forum members around the PNW. Let us know how we can help.
I recently rebuilt an early 80’s Rodriguez for a friend that is quite lovely, and another friend is thrilled with her new Rodriguez. Have you talked with them about building you a bike? I’d put them above Rivendell for fun riding quality. And I’ve heard nothing but compliments about Nobilette. No personal experience with VO frames, but I recall reading less flattering comments about them on this forum.
What size frame fits you, [MENTION=409384]cormacf[/MENTION]? There are lots of C&V forum members around the PNW. Let us know how we can help.
11-26-18 | 03:50 AM
#15
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 16,199
Likes: 9,586
From: PDX
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Apologies if this isn't the right sub-forum. Please move as you like.
I'm looking at the possibility of organizing a small, Eroica-style event. Probably not as rigid, and more of a Pacific Northwest "Let's all drink beer and ride old or old-looking bikes" (probably not in that order) thing. I view this as an excuse to build up a new bike, and I've gotten all excited scouring NOS 80s frame listings.
I've also been considering buying a new frame that LOOKED old, which isn't as sexy, but probably makes a lot more sense. And I've always liked British bikes and pretty paint jobs, so naturally, I wound up and Bob Jackson and Mercian. I loved their older stuff. Is the new stuff comparable in quality? I ask because for the price of one of the Taiwan-made Rivendells, I can upgrade the tubeset, choose custom colors in really pretty paint, and even have money left over for chrome. Plus, those steep seat tube angles make me happy.
Where would modern frames fall, quality-wise, in the Velo Orange > Rivendell (TW) > Rodriguez > Nobliette continuum?
I'm looking at the possibility of organizing a small, Eroica-style event. Probably not as rigid, and more of a Pacific Northwest "Let's all drink beer and ride old or old-looking bikes" (probably not in that order) thing. I view this as an excuse to build up a new bike, and I've gotten all excited scouring NOS 80s frame listings.
I've also been considering buying a new frame that LOOKED old, which isn't as sexy, but probably makes a lot more sense. And I've always liked British bikes and pretty paint jobs, so naturally, I wound up and Bob Jackson and Mercian. I loved their older stuff. Is the new stuff comparable in quality? I ask because for the price of one of the Taiwan-made Rivendells, I can upgrade the tubeset, choose custom colors in really pretty paint, and even have money left over for chrome. Plus, those steep seat tube angles make me happy.
Where would modern frames fall, quality-wise, in the Velo Orange > Rivendell (TW) > Rodriguez > Nobliette continuum?
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
ModeratedUser04122018
Bicycle Mechanics
16
08-30-10 10:20 AM
