Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

“Racy” sport tourers

Search
Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

“Racy” sport tourers

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 01-17-19, 10:06 AM
  #26  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
due ruote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,454
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 904 Post(s)
Liked 527 Times in 320 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr
A classic sport(s) tourer with 41mm stays? Boy thats a needle in a needle stack- really tough to find.
Most everything posted here is more relaxed geometry and/or longer stays.

My '87 Miyata 912 is 73deg HTA and STA, could take fenders, had 415mm stays, and had 2 bottle bosses. It couldnt handle more than a Conti GP 25mm tire that inflated to 26.5mm though.


Interesting geometry to have such short stays and such generous tire clearance.
I certainly wouldnt consider a 912 a sport(s) tourer, even if it could have fit 28mm tires, but i guess its all semantics and perspective.
And maybe my Ross shouldn’t be categorized as a ST either. Maybe it’s just a race frame with good clearances and fender eyelets. My basic question remains though- why weren’t more bikes designed this way?
The other frame I had that fits this description would be an RRB production model.
due ruote is offline  
Old 01-17-19, 02:40 PM
  #27  
Senior Member
 
Piff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,467
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 800 Post(s)
Liked 753 Times in 410 Posts
I can't find a good picture of one, but would an early 80s Japanese Raleigh Super Course count?

Found a pic:

Originally Posted by jan230
I have a Japan built one which I believe is a 1981 made for the Canadian market.
I'm still kicking myself for letting one of these get away from me on the LA Craigslist.

Last edited by Piff; 01-17-19 at 02:47 PM.
Piff is offline  
Old 01-17-19, 03:17 PM
  #28  
Senior Member
 
Dfrost's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 1,990

Bikes: ‘87 Marinoni SLX Sports Tourer, ‘79 Miyata 912 by Gugificazione

Mentioned: 166 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 502 Post(s)
Liked 466 Times in 256 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr
A classic sport(s) tourer with 41mm stays? Boy thats a needle in a needle stack- really tough to find.
Most everything posted here is more relaxed geometry and/or longer stays.

My '87 Miyata 912 is 73deg HTA and STA, could take fenders, had 415mm stays, and had 2 bottle bosses. It couldnt handle more than a Conti GP 25mm tire that inflated to 26.5mm though.


Interesting geometry to have such short stays and such generous tire clearance.
I certainly wouldnt consider a 912 a sport(s) tourer, even if it could have fit 28mm tires, but i guess its all semantics and perspective.
My big black ‘79 912 in post #10 with Gugificazione mods for the front bag and not shown low rider rack, originally came with 27” wheels and apparently significantly more tire clearance than later years, but slightly steeper angles than you mentioned. So the switch to 28x700C gives decent clearance, as in the photo below, where the added brazed-post front centerpull is also obvious. I’ve ridden it with Compass 32’s without fenders, but those 28’s that measure 28.5mm wide on 23mm tb14 rims work nicely with SKS fenders. The fork rerake that @gugie included with all the other fork mods makes it quite viable as a light tourer carrying everything in front. I haven’t yet toured in its intended travel bike mode, but frequently use this bike with or without panniers for grocery runs. Surprisingly little effect on handling even with over 20 lbs in the bags!


Last edited by Dfrost; 01-17-19 at 03:40 PM.
Dfrost is offline  
Old 01-17-19, 08:08 PM
  #29  
Senior Member
 
Sedgemop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,082

Bikes: '72 Peugeot PX-10 '78 Motobecane Le Champion '83 Motobecane Grand Jubile '85 Trek 830 '88 Merckx Team ADR Corsa Extra

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 471 Post(s)
Liked 1,214 Times in 651 Posts
The late 70's Raleigh Super Course fits the bill. Raleigh switched over to 700C wheels and tightened up the geometry. It's definitely on the sport side of the sport tourers.
Sedgemop is offline  
Old 01-17-19, 10:03 PM
  #30  
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,614

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10964 Post(s)
Liked 7,491 Times in 4,189 Posts
I just realized the frame i built in a class last winter is pretty much as close as i would get to whats described in the first post.
- 73degree HTA and STA.
- 2 bottle cages
- fender mounts
- 430mm stays
- 104cm wheelbase on a 65cm frame.
- 30mm tire on now and could be a 32 if I wanted.

but its not c&v as its modern OS Columbus Zona steel.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 01-17-19, 10:40 PM
  #31  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
due ruote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,454
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 904 Post(s)
Liked 527 Times in 320 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr
I just realized the frame i built in a class last winter is pretty much as close as i would get to whats described in the first post.
- 73degree HTA and STA.
- 2 bottle cages
- fender mounts
- 430mm stays
- 104cm wheelbase on a 65cm frame.
- 30mm tire on now and could be a 32 if I wanted.

but its not c&v as its modern OS Columbus Zona steel.
Sounds like some great choices. Nice looking bike. Some day it will be vintage.
due ruote is offline  
Old 01-18-19, 12:56 AM
  #32  
Master Parts Rearranger
 
RiddleOfSteel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Portlandia's Kuiper Belt, OR
Posts: 4,403

Bikes: 1982 Trek 720 - 1985 Trek 620 - 1984 Trek 620 - 1980 Trek 510 - Other luminaries past and present

Mentioned: 221 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1556 Post(s)
Liked 2,024 Times in 989 Posts
I had a 1985 Ross Signature 294S as well. Sold it, but it was a fantastic bike. Chain stays measured 425mm from BB to axle, which means I could have had a 430-435mm or so length had I set the wheels further aft. Given the chain stay length, it is on the sportier side of sports tourers, IMO. For other fast tourers/sports tourers, as others have mentioned, the early '80s Trek 400/500/600 or 410/510/610/710 make great rides. Anything from about 430-440mm is the sweet spot that allows fender clearance, larger tire clearance, a more supple/forgiving ride, while not have the stays be too long so as to experience the rear axle being "behind" the BB/crankset when pedaling hard (and/or quickly) out of the saddle when climbing or accelerating. MY '74 Paramount P15 is at 435mm or so and that's perfect. I could slide it back more but I like the stance and proportion with the axles further forward. 35mm tires fit well.

If you want a full tourer that behaves like a race bike in and out of the saddle, without a racy ride or handling, the '80s Cannondale ST touring bikes are 100% the ticket. It's crazy how competent they are, and mine is a 25" / 63.5cm size. I've put plenty of power into mine in a number of gears, and the power is simply transferred efficiently to the rear. It was raining today, so I had my '90 ST400 out on rain/winter/fender commuter duty and took the very long way home after a long day at work. Nearly uninterrupted city riding in my 9-ish mile route, allowing me to attain and hold a good cadence in a high gear. Felt amazing!
RiddleOfSteel is offline  
Old 01-18-19, 07:44 AM
  #33  
aka: Dr. Cannondale
 
rccardr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,734
Mentioned: 234 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2155 Post(s)
Liked 3,404 Times in 1,205 Posts
Originally Posted by RiddleOfSteel
If you want a full tourer that behaves like a race bike in and out of the saddle, without a racy ride or handling, the '80s Cannondale ST touring bikes are 100% the ticket. It's crazy how competent they are, and mine is a 25" / 63.5cm size. I've put plenty of power into mine in a number of gears, and the power is simply transferred efficiently to the rear. It was raining today, so I had my '90 ST400 out on rain/winter/fender commuter duty and took the very long way home after a long day at work. Nearly uninterrupted city riding in my 9-ish mile route, allowing me to attain and hold a good cadence in a high gear. Felt amazing!
I wondered how long it would take for someone to mention the ST's...




__________________
Hard at work in the Secret Underground Laboratory...
rccardr is offline  
Old 01-18-19, 10:54 AM
  #34  
Senior Member
 
ascherer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Manhattan & Woodstock NY
Posts: 2,748

Bikes: 1987 Mercian Pro, 1985 Shogun 500, early '70s Falcon San Remo, 1972 Peugeot PX-10, 1972 Schwinn Paramount P13-9, 1971 Raleigh International, 1971 Peugeot PX-10, 1970 Raleigh Professional Mk1

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 938 Post(s)
Liked 2,944 Times in 981 Posts
This thread needs Raleigh Internationals.

__________________
1987 Mercian Pro, 1985 Shogun 500, 197? Falcon San Remo, 1972 Peugeot PX-10, 1972 Schwinn Paramount P13-9, 1971 Peugeot PX-10, 1971 Raleigh International, 1970 Raleigh Professional Mark I
Curator/Team Mechanic: 2016 Dawes Streetfighter, 1984 Lotus Eclair, 1975 Motobecane Jubile Mixte, 1974 Raleigh Sports, 1973 Free Spirit Ted Williams, 1972 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Philips Sport





ascherer is offline  
Old 01-18-19, 11:23 AM
  #35  
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 6,480
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1361 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 423 Times in 282 Posts
I've settled in well with a 1987 Trek 520 Cirrus. Good year.

Received as a frameset (main tubes R531) and built up but nothing close to factory stock.

Suntour Cyclone triple, bar ends, Shimano Megarange 7 speed, DC cantilevers / Gran Compe aero levers and Suntour Powerhangers. 700x32c w/ Sunshine hubs. Racked and fendered.
crank_addict is offline  
Old 01-18-19, 11:47 AM
  #36  
Master Parts Rearranger
 
RiddleOfSteel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Portlandia's Kuiper Belt, OR
Posts: 4,403

Bikes: 1982 Trek 720 - 1985 Trek 620 - 1984 Trek 620 - 1980 Trek 510 - Other luminaries past and present

Mentioned: 221 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1556 Post(s)
Liked 2,024 Times in 989 Posts
Originally Posted by rccardr
I wondered how long it would take for someone to mention the ST's...
Dutifully reporting!

I meant to do a build + evolution thread earlier, and I still might but, my originally-planned-to-be-winter/rain/touring ST was delayed for several reasons, but is now far along in it's evolution with larger tires and racks mounted being the only things to max it out. As is stands, it's no less amazing. All the gears for going slow and up walls (28-36), along with all the gears to fly down them (53-11). And properly strong brakes to haul it all down whatever the gradient. This is a bike that is not to be outdone.


RiddleOfSteel is offline  
Old 01-18-19, 12:10 PM
  #37  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
due ruote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,454
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 904 Post(s)
Liked 527 Times in 320 Posts
Originally Posted by crank_addict
I've settled in well with a 1987 Trek 520 Cirrus. Good year.

Received as a frameset (main tubes R531) and built up but nothing close to factory stock.

Suntour Cyclone triple, bar ends, Shimano Megarange 7 speed, DC cantilevers / Gran Compe aero levers and Suntour Powerhangers. 700x32c w/ Sunshine hubs. Racked and fendered.
I had one of those for a while. Likely the smoothest riding bike I have ridden, for lack of another word. Unfortunately it was a size too large so I reluctantly let it go to a very psyched buyer.
due ruote is offline  
Old 01-18-19, 12:26 PM
  #38  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 762
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 175 Post(s)
Liked 238 Times in 109 Posts
Does this count?


1985 Specialized Sequoia
orcas island is offline  
Old 01-18-19, 12:34 PM
  #39  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
due ruote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,454
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 904 Post(s)
Liked 527 Times in 320 Posts
Originally Posted by orcas island
Does this count?


1985 Specialized Sequoia
Emphatically yes!
due ruote is offline  
Old 01-18-19, 12:37 PM
  #40  
Mother Nature's Son
 
delbiker1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Sussex County, Delaware
Posts: 3,118

Bikes: 2014 Orbea Avant MD30, 2004 Airborne Zeppelin TI, 2003 Lemond Poprad, 2001 Lemond Tourmalet, 2014? Soma Smoothie

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 853 Post(s)
Liked 1,437 Times in 819 Posts
Some real beautiful bikes pictured in this thread. Top 506, I absolutely love that red Miyata 710!. I want one of these racy sport tour bikes, 53/54 cm. My latest 2 wheeled lust machine.
delbiker1 is offline  
Old 01-18-19, 12:39 PM
  #41  
Senior Member
 
ollo_ollo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Soviet of Oregon or Pensacola FL
Posts: 5,342

Bikes: Still have a few left!

Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 467 Post(s)
Liked 532 Times in 267 Posts
Lately, I'm riding these 3 a lot. More recent, but surprisingly they check off many of your 6 attributes:

Gary Fisher Montare. 39.4 chainstay & rear axle to crank center, generous clearance, fender eyelets, Unicrown fork? Dual cage mts.

Torelli Gran Sasso. 40.6 chainstay, Clearance? I run 25's but once fit 28's without fenders, fender eyelets, sloping fork crown, dual cage mts.

Schwinn Moab. 41.9 chainstay, generous clearance, fender eyelets rear only, Unicrown fork?, dual cage mts. But, none have shifter studs. Don
Edit: I have some fenders for the Montare, still collecting hardware. Also, just realized I could have posted these in the "oversize tubing" thread.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
1991-Gary-Fisher-Montare.jpg (1.31 MB, 119 views)
File Type: jpg
Torelli-1.jpg (1.46 MB, 119 views)
File Type: jpg
Schwinn-Moab-.2-a.jpg (1.40 MB, 120 views)

Last edited by ollo_ollo; 01-18-19 at 12:49 PM. Reason: add to comment
ollo_ollo is offline  
Old 01-18-19, 12:46 PM
  #42  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
due ruote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,454
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 904 Post(s)
Liked 527 Times in 320 Posts
Originally Posted by RiddleOfSteel
I had a 1985 Ross Signature 294S as well. Sold it, but it was a fantastic bike. Chain stays measured 425mm from BB to axle, which means I could have had a 430-435mm or so length had I set the wheels further aft. Given the chain stay length, it is on the sportier side of sports tourers, IMO. For other fast tourers/sports tourers, as others have mentioned, the early '80s Trek 400/500/600 or 410/510/610/710 make great rides. Anything from about 430-440mm is the sweet spot that allows fender clearance, larger tire clearance, a more supple/forgiving ride, while not have the stays be too long so as to experience the rear axle being "behind" the BB/crankset when pedaling hard (and/or quickly) out of the saddle when climbing or accelerating. MY '74 Paramount P15 is at 435mm or so and that's perfect. I could slide it back more but I like the stance and proportion with the axles further forward. 35mm tires fit well.

If you want a full tourer that behaves like a race bike in and out of the saddle, without a racy ride or handling, the '80s Cannondale ST touring bikes are 100% the ticket. It's crazy how competent they are, and mine is a 25" / 63.5cm size. I've put plenty of power into mine in a number of gears, and the power is simply transferred efficiently to the rear. It was raining today, so I had my '90 ST400 out on rain/winter/fender commuter duty and took the very long way home after a long day at work. Nearly uninterrupted city riding in my 9-ish mile route, allowing me to attain and hold a good cadence in a high gear. Felt amazing!
Intriguing report. I have never ridden a Cannondale and don’t know much about them.
I see yours has cantis whereas the ones Dr C showed all have sidepulls. Different models? Different years? Are certain years more desirable? And how are they measured? It always seems like the frames are deceptively large, ie bigger than it would appear from a glance at the head tube. Maybe that’s just an OS tubing illusion?

due ruote is offline  
Old 01-18-19, 01:52 PM
  #43  
Master Parts Rearranger
 
RiddleOfSteel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Portlandia's Kuiper Belt, OR
Posts: 4,403

Bikes: 1982 Trek 720 - 1985 Trek 620 - 1984 Trek 620 - 1980 Trek 510 - Other luminaries past and present

Mentioned: 221 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1556 Post(s)
Liked 2,024 Times in 989 Posts
Originally Posted by due ruote

Intriguing report. I have never ridden a Cannondale and don’t know much about them.
I see yours has cantis whereas the ones Dr C showed all have sidepulls. Different models? Different years? Are certain years more desirable? And how are they measured? It always seems like the frames are deceptively large, ie bigger than it would appear from a glance at the head tube. Maybe that’s just an OS tubing illusion?


We are an enthusiastic bunch for these old aluminum (many with steel forks as standard spec) machines. Cannondale went from selling cycling-related soft goods and a pull-behind bike trailer, to that plus a touring bike in 1983. They added a race model shortly after. From 1983 to 1990, you'll find them with very clean, minimal graphics. Around 1992/3 is when they changed to a newer and more modern look--I mean, it's all part of the evolution, but classic/vintage Cannondale is largely before those years, and really for some, 1983-1988 when their look was 100% conventional.

The ST that debuted in 1983 was fully outfitted, meaning, long chainstays (46cm), three bottle cage bosses, and mid-fork low-rider rack mounts. Several years later, they adopted canti brakes on their flagship touring model, with lesser ones keeping the side pull brakes. The canti models offered more fender and tire clearance from prior years, which was welcome. I don't know enough nor have seen enough of those '86-88 years to know when the transition to better clearance happened, and whether it was only for canti models. I had an '85 ST400 and that could only fit 32mm tires. All these tourers came with 27" wheels for the longest time, but can be easily run with 700C wheels in either side pull or canti. I upgraded to (standard reach 47-57mm) dual pivot side pull calipers on my '85 which of course made it stop extremely well compared to single pivots. The canti models can be used with a ton of canti brakes, both period and modern. I run Tektro CR720s, and the pads just line up. Ideally I'd like the canti posts to be a touch lower, but it doesn't matter now. The CR720s with Kool Stop pads stop as ferociously as any good dual pivot brake on a touring or race bike of mine.

Cannondale measurements and frame geometries were well within industry norms. Frame size, cm for race bikes, inches for tourers, was/is measured from the center of the BB, up the seat top, to the top of the top tube, not to the top of the seat tube. 90% of sellers of these bikes incorrectly measure these frames. It doesn't help them sell their bikes, and is annoying for enthusiastic buyers (like me), but is really a non issue as I've developed a good eye for my size, OS tubes notwithstanding.

Frames in this early period differed little, with the frame being essentially identical throughout the hierarchy, and only the steel forks being made with nicer or lesser grades of steel (or features). Touring or road bikes, the differentiator per model was essentially the paint color and components. Casual bike sellers will say "old Cannondale" and a nutcase like me will happily run to the online catalogs and ID the year, type and model with relative ease. It's a fun game to play. Fonts changes slightly year to year, so that helps date a particular bike, but really, the Vintage Cannondale site has all the catalogs. Pick your size, pick your color, perhaps pick your preferred brake/tire/fender setup side pull or canti), and ride!
RiddleOfSteel is offline  
Old 01-18-19, 02:32 PM
  #44  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
due ruote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,454
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 904 Post(s)
Liked 527 Times in 320 Posts
^ Thanks for that very helpful primer! Not that I need another bike...
due ruote is offline  
Old 01-18-19, 04:01 PM
  #45  
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18377 Post(s)
Liked 4,512 Times in 3,354 Posts
In the vintage world, these road bikes with rack/fender mounts were quite common.

For example most Motobecane bikes had fender eyelets & often had space for fenders. I've got a Grand Jubilee that is in their upper range with fenders and racks.

Some brands, however, such as Colnago chose not to add eyelets (at a 1 gram savings?).

Unfortunately, recently there seems to be a divergence between really cheap bikes (GMC Denali), and really expensive custom bikes.

I've been experimenting with a Jamis Coda conversion (the frame is now pushing 19 years old).



I still struggle with my longer rides, but I'm much happier riding on narrow tires than my last big ride on that bike with wide tires.

There are quite a few hybrids on the road. The Coda had caught my eye due to double butted 520 steel. I think Jamis has a few other mid-range models what would be worth considering, even new.

I recently picked up a very much racing style bike, filet brazed 853 steel which I'm planning on converting to mid-touring. It pains me to start welding and brazing on the frame, but it will give the bike a second life.

Short chainstays for touring?



My Argos has no eyelets. There may be room to tap the dropouts, but I'll probably weld some accessory eyelets to the dropouts.

I'm hoping the 853 will give a light stiff frame.

Lemond also used 853 on several of their bikes. They used a rear dropout that was tapped in the middle.
CliffordK is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
jlaw
Classic & Vintage
18
12-22-19 08:09 PM
bark_eater
Winter Cycling
3
12-14-18 06:20 PM
bogydave
General Cycling Discussion
19
11-19-18 06:46 PM
bark_eater
Classic & Vintage
5
07-20-18 04:09 PM
Fairview
Classic & Vintage
11
05-29-18 07:58 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.