Freewheel Question
#1
Thread Starter
OldSchool

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,262
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From: Chesapeake, VA
Freewheel Question
I recently acquired a 1983 Trek 613. It has an Atom rear hub with 6-speed Suntour freewheel. Rear spacing is 126. I am wanting to replace the freewheel with more desirable gearing. Would this hub be compatible with a Sachs freewheel?. What do I need to be concerned with on the freewheel with regard to compatibility with the Atom hub and what brands should be compatible? This could be either 6 or 7 speed. Any information and recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
#2
Bianchi Goddess


Joined: Apr 2009
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From: Shady Pines Retirement Fort Wayne, In
Bikes: Too many to list here check my signature.
A Sachs FW should thread right on. Your only concerns would be the usual like spacing and RD limits like max cog and chain wrap. Check the demensions you might be able to squeeze a 7spd in there.
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“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
#3
Senior Member




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From: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones
+ 1. Any English threaded FW will screw right on. If going from 6 to 7, you might get some chain rub on the seat stay which can be fixed by adding a 1 mm spacer. You're wheel will then be a bit off center but it will not be noticeable. And of course you'll want to check the capacity on your rear derailleur so that it works with your new freewheel (or you might need a replacement rear derailleur to handle the bigger freewheel).
#4
Senior Member



Joined: Jan 2015
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From: Los Angeles
Bikes: 82 Medici, 85 Ironman, 2011 Richard Sachs
Your rear derailleur might not be compatible with your freewheel approach to more desirable gearing. Look into that before you get a new freewheel. You might need both rd and fw or consider just a crankset. Virtually open each Pandora's box beforehand.
#5
curmudgineer
Joined: Dec 2009
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From: Chicago SW burbs
Bikes: 2 many 2 fit here
My preferred method for getting "more desirable gearing" is to begin by using a gear calculator to play with different combinations of chainrings and sprockets until I arrive at the desired combination. Then I quest for exactly those chainrings and sprockets, and having acquired them, proceed to assemble the target crankset and freewheel/cassette combination.
That said, there are a few pitfalls to be avoided when customizing drivetrains, freewheels, cassettes and cranksets, but the good news is the group here would love to help you acquire components for and assemble your ideal drivetrain while avoiding such pitfalls.
So my suggestion is firstly to use a gear calculator to figure out what gearing you think you want, then consult with the group to figure out how to get it. Full details including decent photographs of your current drivetrain will be needed in due course, in order to help you find an efficient migration path from where you are now to where you want to be.
That said, there are a few pitfalls to be avoided when customizing drivetrains, freewheels, cassettes and cranksets, but the good news is the group here would love to help you acquire components for and assemble your ideal drivetrain while avoiding such pitfalls.
So my suggestion is firstly to use a gear calculator to figure out what gearing you think you want, then consult with the group to figure out how to get it. Full details including decent photographs of your current drivetrain will be needed in due course, in order to help you find an efficient migration path from where you are now to where you want to be.
#6
Thread Starter
OldSchool

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,262
Likes: 34
From: Chesapeake, VA
My preferred method for getting "more desirable gearing" is to begin by using a gear calculator to play with different combinations of chainrings and sprockets until I arrive at the desired combination. Then I quest for exactly those chainrings and sprockets, and having acquired them, proceed to assemble the target crankset and freewheel/cassette combination.
That said, there are a few pitfalls to be avoided when customizing drivetrains, freewheels, cassettes and cranksets, but the good news is the group here would love to help you acquire components for and assemble your ideal drivetrain while avoiding such pitfalls.
So my suggestion is firstly to use a gear calculator to figure out what gearing you think you want, then consult with the group to figure out how to get it. Full details including decent photographs of your current drivetrain will be needed in due course, in order to help you find an efficient migration path from where you are now to where you want to be.
That said, there are a few pitfalls to be avoided when customizing drivetrains, freewheels, cassettes and cranksets, but the good news is the group here would love to help you acquire components for and assemble your ideal drivetrain while avoiding such pitfalls.
So my suggestion is firstly to use a gear calculator to figure out what gearing you think you want, then consult with the group to figure out how to get it. Full details including decent photographs of your current drivetrain will be needed in due course, in order to help you find an efficient migration path from where you are now to where you want to be.
Last edited by cpsqlrwn; 01-17-19 at 07:10 AM.
#8
Freewheel Medic



Joined: Oct 2005
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From: An Island on the Coast of GA!
Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales & a Super Pro Aero Lotus (* Ed.)
There is a very, very, very small chance the Atom hub and Suntour freewheel are French Threaded. If the Suntour is a Perfect or ProCompe model, look for the word "METRIC" stamped into the outside of the inner body between the two removal notches.
If you are looking to move from the 6 speed Suntour to a 7 speed Sachs, there will be a difference in total stack height and depending on your hub and its spacers, it will either fit or not fit. I've run into this when changing wheels spaced at 126 but a 7 speed that works on one does not always fit on another. If you want to measure your Suntour and compare to a Sachs Aris 7 speed height I can help you with the comparison. Look closely at how much clearance you have between the smallest sprocket and the inside of the dropout. I can also probably help you with 12-18 or 12-19 Sachs at a reasonable price.
If you are looking to move from the 6 speed Suntour to a 7 speed Sachs, there will be a difference in total stack height and depending on your hub and its spacers, it will either fit or not fit. I've run into this when changing wheels spaced at 126 but a 7 speed that works on one does not always fit on another. If you want to measure your Suntour and compare to a Sachs Aris 7 speed height I can help you with the comparison. Look closely at how much clearance you have between the smallest sprocket and the inside of the dropout. I can also probably help you with 12-18 or 12-19 Sachs at a reasonable price.
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Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
#9
Senior Member


Joined: May 2008
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From: Fredericksburg, Va
Bikes: ? Proteous, '65 Frejus TDF, '73 Bottecchia Giro d'Italia, '83 Colnago Superissimo, '84 Trek 610, '84 Trek 760, '88 Pinarello Veneto, '88 De Rosa Pro, '89 Pinarello Montello, 'Litespeed Catalyst'94 Burley Duet, 97 Specialized RockHopper, 2010 Langster
[MENTION=476975]CPS[/MENTION]qlrwin - Can't answer your question. I have a '84 610 with 6 speed. I would have to pull the frame down and place a wheel with a 7 spd on to check

124_PaTrek, on Flickr
Looks like it is worth the effort:
P1010856, on Flickr
P1010857, on Flickr
P1010858, on Flickr

124_PaTrek, on Flickr
Looks like it is worth the effort:
P1010856, on Flickr
P1010857, on Flickr
P1010858, on Flickr
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Last edited by SJX426; 01-17-19 at 06:38 AM.
#10
Senior Member

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 17,195
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From: Ann Arbor, MI
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
I've used a variety of different freewheels on my 1984 Trek 610, Sachsen, Suntours, and several different Shimanos, even some Regina.. The hub was a Shimano 600 6207 made for freewheels, not for cassettes. The spacers on the hub axle are the same ones the wheel came with. There seem to have been several different spacing schemes on 6 and 7-speed freewheels - on occasion I would find a 7 that interfered with the inner face of the dropout. I usually just went to a different freewheel in that case. The best-shifting models have been the Shimanos and the Sachsen, possible edge to the Sachsen. At the bottom were the Reginas, with Suntour providing a small improvement.
Currently I have a 13-34 Shimano Megarange on it, and it works very well with a Duopar and 53/39 in the front. I'm looking for a very low-Q compact for that bike. What I have now is a first-generation Chorus 53/39, and it has very low Q with the recommended Campy 111 mm BB cartridge. That is a really beautiful crankset.
Currently I have a 13-34 Shimano Megarange on it, and it works very well with a Duopar and 53/39 in the front. I'm looking for a very low-Q compact for that bike. What I have now is a first-generation Chorus 53/39, and it has very low Q with the recommended Campy 111 mm BB cartridge. That is a really beautiful crankset.
#11
Thread Starter
OldSchool

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,262
Likes: 34
From: Chesapeake, VA
Thanks for the great comments and the photos are great I have the Sachs freewheels on the shelf. I have always preferred them because of the tooth etchings at the top edges that really seem to assist in chain movement onto each cog. I have always run them with Campy in the past. I am not familiar with any of the Shimano freewheels, but I would be very interested in knowing which ones are best, if they compare favorably with the Sachs, and if they would be a better approach to this spacing issue if the Sachs does not work out. Would the Shimano actually make more sense and provide some advantages over the Sachs? Are they smooth shifting?
#12
Bianchi Goddess


Joined: Apr 2009
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From: Shady Pines Retirement Fort Wayne, In
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The late Sachs freewheels, Aris I believe, we’re built to same measurements as shimano except the twist tooth, so they are comparable to 600 FW. Lots of people used to run them because they were a bit cheaper than a shimano, had better gearing choices and.....you could run your old Campi wheels with you new tangled index shifting. If you got them use them, you likely wouldn’t see a huge performance difference between the two
__________________
“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
#13
Full Member
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 450
Likes: 60
I recently acquired a 1983 Trek 613. It has an Atom rear hub with 6-speed Suntour freewheel. Rear spacing is 126. I am wanting to replace the freewheel with more desirable gearing. Would this hub be compatible with a Sachs freewheel?. What do I need to be concerned with on the freewheel with regard to compatibility with the Atom hub and what brands should be compatible? This could be either 6 or 7 speed. Any information and recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
#14
Thread Starter
OldSchool

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,262
Likes: 34
From: Chesapeake, VA
Although no 613 model appears in the online version of the 1983 Trek catalog, the entry for the Trek 600 says it's an Atom Helicomatic freewheel and Atom Helicomatic hub. https://www.vintage-trek.com/images/t...churePart1.pdf Helicomatic is rather different from ordinary freewheels and as far as I know is not interchangeable. More here: The Helicomatic Museum
#15
Zip tie Karen
Joined: Aug 2009
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From: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX
Bikes: '13 Motobecane Fantom29 HT, '16 Motobecane Turino Pro Disc, '18 Velobuild VB-R-022, '21 Tsunami SNM-100
So, I'm going to disagree with not using a gear calculator. If your goal is to tighten your gear range to suit your riding style and local geography, then the gearing calculator is the very first step. Your 12-19 freewheel has steps from 8% to 11% or so. What if you had 4% step between your chainrings? Then you would achieve very tight gearing on the half-step. The original 613 might've had 52-42 or 53-42T front. What if you went 44-42T, then the steps would be grand, as evidenced by the following:
#16
Senior Member


Joined: Jul 2006
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From: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Bikes: Kirk Custom JK Special, 86 De Rosa Pro, '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) 80?? SR Semi-Pro 600 Arabesque
Thank you very much for your response and all the others as well. My "more desirable rear gearing" is tighter, not more spread out. No need for a gear calculator. I live near the coast and only ride on small rear rings. Let me simplify. Trek 613 currently has original equipment Suntour BL shifters and rear derailleur with a 6-speed 14-26 freewheel (Suntour, I think). Intend to replace with Suntour Cyclone rear derailleur, Suntour Cyclone clamp mounted DT shifters, and Sugino Mighty Drillum crankset just purchased. Intending to run 7-speed with a Sachs 12-18 or 12-19 freewheel on the Atom hub. As a fallback alternative to the Cyclone shifters, I also have an NOS set of clamp on DT Simplex shifters which have no equal in functionality and will handle anything from 7 to 10 speed. One question is whether the Cyclone shifters will handle the 7 speeds, as they are early generation 6-speed, but I would imagine they should be able to handle the cable pull. Just wasn't sure about the freewheel compatibility because I have never had Atom hubs before. I would appreciate any additional comments or information, particularly related to any red flags that may exist in this setup. Thanks again for all the feedback!
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Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can.
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#17
Thread Starter
OldSchool

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,262
Likes: 34
From: Chesapeake, VA
So, I'm going to disagree with not using a gear calculator. If your goal is to tighten your gear range to suit your riding style and local geography, then the gearing calculator is the very first step. Your 12-19 freewheel has steps from 8% to 11% or so. What if you had 4% step between your chainrings? Then you would achieve very tight gearing on the half-step. The original 613 might've had 52-42 or 53-42T front. What if you went 44-42T, then the steps would be grand, as evidenced by the following:
Last edited by cpsqlrwn; 01-17-19 at 03:55 PM.







