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Bertin CL "Score"

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Old 02-09-19, 08:57 AM
  #1  
hazetguy 
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Bertin CL "Score"

Saw an ad on CL last evening for a "Fixed Gear - Bertin Frame", sent off a couple emails, heard back late last night, went this morning to look at it, negotiated the price a little, brought it home. It was less than a mile from my house. Diamond in the rough for sure.
Campagnolo drop outs, fortunately the derailleur hanger wasn't cut off, whew. There is a very faded tubing decal, but it is rectangular, so maybe Reynolds? Many braze-ons, love the "Y" shaped rear pump peg. There are some really cool old decals on it, especially the Hans Ohrt bike shop.
Looking forward to getting this one back more towards original / stock.

CL ad:


A few "as purchased" pictures:


Campagnolo dropouts

Hans Ohrt decal, cool!

old Los Angeles decal, a license perhaps?

Lugs, braze on pump peg, front

Lugs, rear pump peg is sweet!

Bertin decal on downtube

Downtube and chainstay braze ons

Faded tubing decal

Last edited by hazetguy; 02-09-19 at 09:09 AM.
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Old 02-09-19, 09:03 AM
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Cool score. Is that your size?

That Hans Ohrt bike shop sticker has shown up before. If it has campy drop outs, you got to figure the tubing--at least the main triangle--is likely something good like reynolds 531.
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Old 02-09-19, 09:09 AM
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Thanks! Yes, it is my size, even more of a bonus!

Found this decal remnant on the left fork tube. There is not a similar remnant on the right side.

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Old 02-09-19, 11:00 AM
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I am thinking 531 main tubes and Durifort fork. I seem to recall there was a model with that MO.
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Old 02-09-19, 11:24 AM
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Very likely^, and the Campy 1010 DO has a hole for the "Gran Sport" model Campy RD spring, that DO was introduced in the late 1950s but remained in use for a long run. Nice that the PO didn't "drew" off the RD hanger or any of the braze-ons, plus left the original paint and decals! I hope you bring it back to closer to it's former glory, nice score!
EDIT: looking again that DO may be a stamped model 1010/1, but clearly has the spring hole for the RD so maybe dates from the '60s to the '70s

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Old 02-09-19, 11:37 AM
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I would keep the old decals and faded paint, it looks nice!
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Old 02-09-19, 11:46 AM
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When I first got into bikes, there was a small shop near my house that sold Bertins. I thought they were beautiful bikes. This is a really good score.
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Old 02-09-19, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by gbi View Post
I would keep the old decals and faded paint, it looks nice!
If nothing else for the Hans Ohrt sticker.
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Old 02-09-19, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by CV-6 View Post
If nothing else for the Hans Ohrt sticker.
I know where you can get a reproduction of that. (@gugie had some made.)
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Old 02-09-19, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post


I know where you can get a reproduction of that. (@gugie had some made.)
But it is just that. A repop. But I can see where one would want to refinish it.
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Old 02-09-19, 02:23 PM
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Neato survivor and amazing it wasn't 'drewed'.

If mine, would leave the original finish. Lightly scuff the scaley portions and then numerous rubbing Pledge wax.
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Old 02-09-19, 02:33 PM
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Cool machine! Give it some love for sure. Sent an email.
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Old 02-09-19, 03:15 PM
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Wow, that paint has faded.
Model C-35
Could be anywhere from 1971 to early 1973

I cannot recall if LA bike licenses lasted 4 or 5 years.
A few shops could sell them, like Hans Ohrt and others, otherwise one had to go to the police station on Saturday.

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Old 02-09-19, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by CV-6 View Post
If nothing else for the Hans Ohrt sticker.
Someone has reproduced those.

The pin striping is the last of the type at that price point.

Original would have had Stronglight 49D crank set, Mafac brakes.
Hubs and derailleurs changed from order to order. you could be correct with Huret or Campagnolo Gran Sport. Hubs- Normandy Competition or Campagnolo Nuovo Tipo. Ideale 80 saddle.
Tubulars, with Milremo branded Super Champion rims. Robergel spokes.

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Old 02-09-19, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by CV-6 View Post
But it is just that. A repop. But I can see where one would want to refinish it.
I would be tempted to replace the Bertin seat tube panel. Kind of in concert with the rest of the finish, but it is quite torn up.

Hans Ohrt shop stickers went through an evolution.
Beverly hills
then Beverly Hills, Los Angeles.
Later added Westwood stacked below and the cyclist was exchanged for part of the logotype below the Hans Ohrt of
Lightweight
Bicycles, Inc.

Always with the Orange background.
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Old 02-09-19, 06:14 PM
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-----

Congratulations on another excellent find!

Lug set is Prugnat 62/s.

Agree shield shaped blade transfer vestige is of Durifort.

Ends set appears somewhat more like 1010/1 than 1010/A. Note absence of parapet at rear for adjuster screw.

Drive side axle slot has been opened up.

Will look forward to following this as you work with it.

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Old 02-09-19, 07:56 PM
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Damn, that bike reeks of cool. Well done in my view!

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Old 02-09-19, 08:24 PM
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Very cool - Nice score!
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Old 02-10-19, 08:40 AM
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Thanks for the comments and info. I've been doing a lot of reading on Bertins over the past couple days.
As of now I have no plans to repaint or restore it. Clearly it has lead a tougher life than a garage queen, and even though there is external rust, it's not excessively bad. I kinda like the faded out paint effect, and I really like the pinstriping. I have no plans to remove or replace any decals at this time.
Yesterday I began tearing it down so I could do more investigation into the frame. I found no dents, the dropouts in the rear look good - still at 120 spacing (axle slot is not opened up, checked with a caliper), BB came unthreaded nicely, and I love the factory braze-ons. And yes, even though I thought to myself many times: "look to make sure the rear derailleur hanger has not been chopped off" before I went to look at it, I totally forgot while I was checking it out, and was relieved when I was loading it into my van and saw the hanger was still there.

However, I ran in to two significant negative issues.

First is that the seatpost is stuck. In the grand scheme of things, that is the lesser of my concerns at this point. I have begun the initial 'easy' methods of trying to remove it, and will progress from there if necessary. The stuck seatpost is not a major concern to me.

Secondly, and the much bigger concern, is that on the steerer tube, at the top where the upper headset race and top nut were, the threads are severely worn and/or damaged. I was almost able to pull the headset parts off the tube. Not unthread, but actually just wiggle/pull/slide them off. The upper threads are physically damaged, and thinner than the lower threaded section, the difference in o.d. can be felt by hand.
So I don't know where that leaves me in the grand scheme of things. I would certainly not have any confidence in installing a headset and having it hold adjustment, or even stay on at all. Is steerer tube replacement a 'thing' that a shop could perform without damaging or 'unbrazing' the forks at the same time, and having minimum damage to the paint (not that the paint wouldn't be damaged, I know it would, but how far would the burned area go?)? I really don't know, so advice would be appreciated. If steerer tube replacement is an option, I would definitely want to go that route. I feel the bike, while not in the best cosmetic condition, is worth putting some time and $$ into in the long run. I'd hate to make it a wall hanger.
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Old 02-10-19, 08:54 AM
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I’m wondering if some material can be added then re tapped for threading.
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Old 02-10-19, 12:56 PM
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hazetguy-

Like the seatpost fix, start with the simple and work up to the complex. Run a French threaded die over the fork threads to see if they can be re-profiled after first checking to see if someone has messed up the threads with an English or Italian force fit. If that fails, a framebuilder may be able to add braze to the threads and then re-profile them with a die. Last resort (you may be getting to know your local frame guy really well) the steerer tube can be shortened and a new, upper, threaded section Tigged into place. All in ascending order of complexity and cost. Tigging allows you to switch to English threads, as well. However,it all seems a bit of a pain when a new steerer and a coat of paint to the whole bike would save a lot of complexity. And the C 35 is definitely worth the effort. C 35 steerer replacement is discussed here: https://bertinclassiccycles.wordpres...5-restoration/
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Old 02-10-19, 01:03 PM
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Yes you could have a fresh threaded steerer (top) spliced on by a competent frame repair-person maybe even opt for a slightly taller steerer if you want that or even switch to BSC (English) threading if you want to swing that way. In my 'hood I usually recommend Bernie Mikkelsen for that steerer splice job, he's done a hundred of them and knows how to do it right.
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Old 02-11-19, 04:48 PM
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-----

Steerer thread damage likely due to cycle being ridden with a loose headset adjustment.

Have had success with framebuildier "floating" some brass onto the damaged area and rethreading.

Brass plenty strong eno' to hold the threads so long as there be no misuse.

---

This manner of damage oftimes due to cycle being ridden off curbs/down steps/jumps.

Suggest examine blades for any evidence of "relaxation" due to repeated vertical impacts.

Do the suggested repair and ride normally; then all should be well.

-----

Last edited by juvela; 02-13-19 at 07:04 PM. Reason: addition
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Old 02-11-19, 05:31 PM
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Headset: take the top nut from the Bertin fork and see if it will thread onto a British thread fork. If it does, a former owner used an incorrect headset on your Bertin. That would help to explain the thread damage at the top of the steerer tube. Also makes the damage potentially less awful than you might at first have thought. The French standard is a smaller diameter. The British threaded headsets will thread on to the French steerer, very loose fit, and it is a bad idea. Folks do it anyway.

Juvela's idea to float some brass and rethread the existing steerer gets even more appealing if you determine that the removed headset was oversize = British.

Seatpost: is the stuck post made of aluminum or carbon composite? I cannot tell from the photo. Patience will be your friend in releasing the stuck seat post. There are methods more appropriate to aluminum than to carbon, hence the question. You might measure its diameter to get a sense of how much too large the post is for the frame tube.

Compare your Bertin frame to this one:

1970's Bertin C 132? - 61cm - A worthy save (of course!)?

which has a round Durifort decal at the top of its seat tube. Its Campagnolo 1010-1 rear drop out looks similar to yours.

Your seat tube top most decal shadow does more closely resemble a rectangular Reynolds one.

It is fun to examine the variations.
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Old 02-11-19, 07:12 PM
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Here is a photograph of a rectangular Durifort frame tubing foil decal from a 1970s Bertin. The fork on the bicycle has a Durifort shield decal that resembles the outline on your fork.

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