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The ideal drive train for bikes...

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The ideal drive train for bikes...

Old 03-14-19, 07:46 AM
  #26  
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I like triples. If just for that "throw it in the little ring" bail out.

For the most part- I had everything decided for me by my decision to use the shifters I like- Command Shifters work with 6 speed- so that's what I was riding. Now there's a 10 speed ring for them- so I went from 6 to 10 speed in the back. It's effing glorious. So I'll eventually be swapping my Command Shiftered bikes to 10 speed.

Maybe I'll do that "wide range double" or "compact double" thing that all the kids are into these days.
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Old 03-14-19, 09:27 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Hudson308 View Post
So do you have to stop and loosen the rear wheel to move the chain between different cogs?
I've seen 3-cog rear freewheels, but have often wondered what the application is.
Not 100% sure it was SA, I think it was them. I read about S-A currently still selling a 3 speed fixed gear hub.
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Old 03-14-19, 10:07 AM
  #28  
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My ideal drivetrain is 1 x 3 with an SA AW on the rear. 46 X 21 teeth.
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Old 03-14-19, 10:14 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Kovkov View Post
My ideal drivetrain is 1 x 3 with an SA AW on the rear. 46 X 21 teeth.
nice drive train. Love a good aw.
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Old 03-14-19, 10:25 AM
  #30  
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Newer NIG 3 speeds shift much easier than the older AW which could drop between 2nd & 3rd

Mk2 with AW3 , Steel trigger .. was a push to get in 1st ..


gave way to a Mk 4 with BSR with plastic shifter.. it shifts more effortlessly into all 3 gears ..

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Old 03-14-19, 12:08 PM
  #31  
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A few years ago I test rode a fatbike with Nuvinci CVT drive. They're heavy but what a sensation in pedaling a bike!

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Old 03-14-19, 12:38 PM
  #32  
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I've always been impressed how well very old but properly maintained IGH 3 speeds perform. They really are tough and unlike finicky or temperamental derailleurs.

Currently have a project in the works with a new Shimano Alfine 8 speed IGH. Time will tell...

Derailleur-
As for other bikes and applications, do enjoy a basic 1 x 5 on vintage Bottechia but initially had chain drops when quickly shifting low to high range. Weaker spring design in the Campy Velox but solved the chain drop by adding a front chain guide. Now perfect. That bike can get caked of dirt on messy singletracks (knobby 700x32 Dugast tubulars) and it shifts without issues.

Dig the 1 x 11 for mtb. Flawless and quick.

And then there's the wide range odd ball 3 x 3 x 2. This one is a blast.



Fixed gear and 3 x 3 x 2


1 x 11
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Old 03-14-19, 01:15 PM
  #33  
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What do I want from a gear system? I want gears that are close enough but not too close. I want a low enough bottom and a high enough top. I want a relatively easy shifting pattern. I want replacement parts at a reasonable cost.

I have a 3x9 bike, and I find it indistinguishable in the above criteria as my 3x10 bike. The gears on the 3x8 are certainly close enough. I bet once I try the 3x8 drivetrain that is sitting and waiting for installation on my gravel bike, they will probably be close enough.

Our tandem was 3x7. We needed a lower bottom and a higher top. I looked around and thought about it. I decided not to go with used stuff for an upgrade. I decided on an 11-speed cassette and shifter because of how fast stuff goes obsolete. That was one factor, but it's easier to find 11-speed new stuff than fewer speeds. Another advantage of the latest stuff is that it might just be better designed or made. I replaced the cassette and hub and shifter. I kept the old front derailleur and shifter. The rear derailleur and shifter (Deore XT) look and feel cheap in the hands, but that may not be the case. They work magnificently. So one test is durability, and that will take time. The new top gear is better but still not high enough. I'll try a bigger big chainring. It might work with the current derailleur and chain. We now have closer gears than we need, which isn't so bad. But driving a tandem is like driving a tractor trailer. I'm often rowing from bottom gear to top gear and back.
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Old 03-14-19, 01:24 PM
  #34  
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Nice bikes @crank_addict. Is that a Reverb dropper on the Felt? Been meaning to try out a dropper.
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Old 03-14-19, 01:40 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by due ruote View Post

How do you get three fixed cogs on a hub?
I had a local framebuilder braze 2 cogs together; the first flipped, then a steel spacer, then the second with the second cut out so it slips over the threaded portion of the first. A 21-17 "dingle". I also put a touch of dish in the wheel so those two cogs line up with the first two chainrings and the other, now dished out, lines up with the outside chainring. Works really well. Each ca hainline is a rock solid, simple fix gear, just three very different gears.

Ben
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Old 03-14-19, 01:45 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Hudson308 View Post
So do you have to stop and loosen the rear wheel to move the chain between different cogs?
I've seen 3-cog rear freewheels, but have often wondered what the application is.
Yes. Flip the wheel also to get the big gear. The bike is old-school as in 100+ years old-school. (If road fix gears had stayed around, I am sure my bike would be far from unique.)

Ben
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Old 03-14-19, 02:02 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by TenGrainBread View Post
Nice bikes @crank_addict. Is that a Reverb dropper on the Felt? Been meaning to try out a dropper.
Thanks. PNW Pine for 27.2 d. Its excellent. Often in the bike industry push gimmicks but have to say the dropper post for mtb is transforming brilliant.

I used to ride MX and of course its natural to be flexible off the saddle - mostly ride the pegs.

For off road bicycles and especially hardtail, its the same scenario. Getting the saddle out of the way is a godsend, far more flexible and properly 'riding ON the pedals'. Yet also conveniently allows the opposite, often want it 'exactly in position' for when the trail smooths out.

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Old 03-14-19, 02:14 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
Yes. Flip the wheel also to get the big gear. The bike is old-school as in 100+ years old-school. (If road fix gears had stayed around, I am sure my bike would be far from unique.)

Ben
Ok NOW you need to show us some pics of that!!!
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Old 03-14-19, 02:17 PM
  #39  
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Bah! Double post
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Old 03-14-19, 07:17 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by USAZorro View Post
I just laced up the spokes on the rear wheel that will be my 3 x 9 x 3 light cruiser. In 5 weeks I will have a report on it.
I'm looking forward to seeing this one at the Bourbon and Tobacco Tour in about a month. Right John? You're still bringing it aren't you?
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Old 03-14-19, 07:47 PM
  #41  
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Just crossed my mind but I have this Sachs 3 x 7 all in the back. Its been dependable.

This Sachs IGH rear hub opens up many possibilities including adding a front derailleur (which I don't have for this particular rig).





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Old 03-15-19, 06:32 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by speedevil View Post
I'm looking forward to seeing this one at the Bourbon and Tobacco Tour in about a month. Right John? You're still bringing it aren't you?
That's the motivation. Will only change if we have to move in a hurry.
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Old 03-18-19, 04:30 PM
  #43  
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As brevity is the soul of wit, Simplicity is the soul of engineering -CC
The "best drivetrain" is always the next one

Wide/Narrow front single chain ring
correct chainline
Cassette hub for strength with a 8spd cassette
Know your rear mech limits when choosing cassettes
Low gear as needed for the big hill
#4 sprocket gear should produce your cruising speed
You can always coast if you run out of gear at the top.
Enjoy lighter, simpler, cycling zen -CC
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Old 03-19-19, 06:38 AM
  #44  
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The "ideal" drivetrain? All the years I've been riding around relatively flat Columbus, the trusty 1x1 setup on my "city bike" has been perfect. UDoDU
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Old 03-19-19, 11:44 PM
  #45  
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Internal gear hubs are fascinating and elegant, I grew up on them, but they have numerous drawbacks, and some critical advantages:
- Heavy.
- Complex. Try to fix one in the field or find someone to do so on a world tour in East Berzerkistan. Heck, in many major US cities, to actually repair it rather than getting the line "You need a new rear wheel." Periodic maintenance, simply periodic internal greasing is a major thing, and many manufacturers don't make things easy.
- Weather fragile; If you live someplace rain intense, you need to do a full overhaul with marine grease annually. See above.
- Planetary gears typical consume 5% energy in friction, unless operating in the one direct drive gear.
- Often utilize oiled main hub bearings instead of grease, with a large diameter so more runout, so harder to adjust for a precise fit and preload, tiny steel balls so not rated for heavy loads as with touring, poor seals (labyrinth instead of rubber lip) so leak oil and are rain sensitive.
+ Ability to shift when stopped.
+ Can use a larger, more effective chainguard.
+ For very small wheels like on a Brompton, provides an overdrive to give sufficient high gear.
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Old 03-20-19, 05:19 AM
  #46  
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If I had a mountain bike 1x would be preferable. My beach cruiser has 1x7 and is just fine as well, though it hardly sees an incline. I have rode 105 11 speed. I may be too accustomed to 5 - 7 speeds, found myself skipping cogs a lot. 50/34 front and a 28-32 low cog rear, and I seem to work with it ok and keep cadence and speed decently. Meanwhile, unless I buy something new or move back to mountain country, I don’t see myself moving on to a 10-11 speed cassette.
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Old 03-20-19, 07:00 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch View Post
Internal gear hubs are fascinating and elegant, I grew up on them, but they have numerous drawbacks, and some critical advantages:
- Heavy.
- Complex. Try to fix one in the field or find someone to do so on a world tour in East Berzerkistan. Heck, in many major US cities, to actually repair it rather than getting the line "You need a new rear wheel." Periodic maintenance, simply periodic internal greasing is a major thing, and many manufacturers don't make things easy.
- Weather fragile; If you live someplace rain intense, you need to do a full overhaul with marine grease annually. See above.
- Planetary gears typical consume 5% energy in friction, unless operating in the one direct drive gear.
- Often utilize oiled main hub bearings instead of grease, with a large diameter so more runout, so harder to adjust for a precise fit and preload, tiny steel balls so not rated for heavy loads as with touring, poor seals (labyrinth instead of rubber lip) so leak oil and are rain sensitive.
+ Ability to shift when stopped.
+ Can use a larger, more effective chainguard.
+ For very small wheels like on a Brompton, provides an overdrive to give sufficient high gear.
if your gear needs can be satisfied by an old aw sturmey archer hub, youll find transmission losses are very low. Certainly lower than what you get with an 11 tooth rear sprocket. Otherwise, yeah you covered it.
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Old 03-20-19, 07:13 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch View Post
Internal gear hubs are fascinating and elegant, I grew up on them, but they have numerous drawbacks, and some critical advantages:
- Heavy.
- Complex. Try to fix one in the field or find someone to do so on a world tour in East Berzerkistan. Heck, in many major US cities, to actually repair it rather than getting the line "You need a new rear wheel." Periodic maintenance, simply periodic internal greasing is a major thing, and many manufacturers don't make things easy.
- Weather fragile; If you live someplace rain intense, you need to do a full overhaul with marine grease annually. See above.
- Planetary gears typical consume 5% energy in friction, unless operating in the one direct drive gear.
- Often utilize oiled main hub bearings instead of grease, with a large diameter so more runout, so harder to adjust for a precise fit and preload, tiny steel balls so not rated for heavy loads as with touring, poor seals (labyrinth instead of rubber lip) so leak oil and are rain sensitive.
+ Ability to shift when stopped.
+ Can use a larger, more effective chainguard.
+ For very small wheels like on a Brompton, provides an overdrive to give sufficient high gear.

Never have owned one , I will profess that the Rohloff hubs intrigue me, and by all user accounts they seem indestructible . I have not heard an account of one requiring service to date , but that doesn't mean anything. The weight is concerning ...
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Old 03-20-19, 12:36 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by SamSpade1941 View Post
Never have owned one , I will profess that the Rohloff hubs intrigue me, and by all user accounts they seem indestructible . I have not heard an account of one requiring service to date , but that doesn't mean anything. The weight is concerning ...
I used to work for a company with another subsidiary that made an internal gear 12, even heavier, and from what I read, less reliable than the Rohloff. I wouldn't want a Rohloff for my normal uses, but would love to have one just for it's Swissness, in the same way I love complex mechanical chronographs. But I don't camp, sail, ski, etc. with the expensive chrono. Rohloffs are similarly expensive.

I think even heavier or at least equally heavy was the NuVinci hub, brilliantly simple, but I had doubts about durability from a hub that relied on friction between hard steel elements immersed in oil, the same doubts I have about automotive CVTs.
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Old 04-29-19, 04:28 PM
  #50  
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I am test riding a dingle-6 geared bike today. AW hub with both 28T and 18T in the back (spacers removed) with 52T and 42T double crankset. Gives crazy wide range, but requires a 15mm wrench to change between 42x28 or 52x18. Gear range is from below 30GI to over 100GI. I followed Sheldon's suggestion of making the larger 28T sprocket for the AW hub by grinding some of the teeth off sprockets from an 8 speed cassette. I will report on my test once I have ridden for a few days.

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