repechage

RobbieTunes

So, a bruised finger with the same facts would not be? The facts are the same. This shows the complete lack of logic that now envelops the public. OMG, someone is hurt badly, someone has to be to blame !!! Empathy is a character trait, and good, but not a cause of loss.

This is a typical situation where, because someone is hurt badly, someone must be sued. The plaintiff bar doesn't like the facts, they like the damages. They don't spend hours and hours investigating the facts; they focus on the damages. As John Edwards said in his seminars, "blow them up!" He was the one-man wrecking crew re: cerebral palsy and C-sections. He blamed all kinds of medical problems on birth canal birthing vs. C-sections, including cerebral palsy. So, dozens of OB-GYNs were sued, left the practice of medicine, and C-sections skyrocketed. The result: the rate of cerebral palsy went up, not down. Oops, his bad. Millions of dollars, his bad. Careers wrecked, lives ruined, his bad.

So, he ran for president, brings an injured girl as a prop, severely injured in a pool that met state guidelines. Had to be someone's fault. Can't sue the state, hmm, the pool is insured, it must be their fault. The state then required safety switches that cut the pressure so much the pool chemicals don't work very well. Guess who invested in the switch company? Well, there you go. Hubris, backed and financed by an ignorant public.

I refuse to believe that a frame simply failed by being ridden. Why did the frame fail? That's the issue. Your picture does not say why the frame snapped in half, and neither does the Instagram. I highly doubt it just spontaneously snapped. But, because of grievous injuries, the facts are overlooked. Did the bike hit a guardrail? (in one court case it did, but well, it was made of carbon, so that HAD to be the problem.)

Juries are inherently stupid, that's why lawyers like them. The jury feels sorry for the person who is seriously injured, and that empathy outweighs the facts, nearly every time.

Planes crash, lawyers parachute in. No one has even established cause and the lawsuits are already filed. Someone's dead, it MUST BE THE AIRLINE'S FAULT!!!

Same with smoking. It's been bad from day ONE. Save us from our stupidity!!!!! Save us from personal accountability!!!! Someone got hurt, it HAD TO BE ON PURPOSE!!! If people had to pay out-of-pocket for smoking-related illnesses, sales would drop off very quickly. Self-inflicted injuries. Addictive, yes, and intentionally so. Same with guns. Can't sue the shooter, he/she has no money. It had to be the gun makers. Airbags? We have to have them, they save lives, right? Yep, but injury settlements didn't go down at all, they went up. How can that be? Dragging the American public away from free money is like dragging a pig from the trough, but at least the pig has some dignity, and doesn't squeal as loud.

You think the lawyer lips on front forks are there for any other reason than to overcome the stupidity and negligence of a rider? Nyet, comrade. But still, on nearly every big charity ride I go to, someone leaves their QR's loose. That is in no way a bike seller's fault. But those terrible bike companies; someone should MAKE THEM PAY!

I handled a claim where a Trek Equinox was on a liftgate rack, hit in the rear, and it went through the rear window of the Toyota 4-Runner. After receiving a $5800 "estimate" to replace from the local tri-shop, I found the same bike, brand new, for $2700, in the box. I also went to the shop, and couldn't find any damage on the frame, but I paid for it, because I just didn't trust it. I did, however, swear out a complaint vs. the shop. Imagine that, a shop lying. I decided to visit the shop, and he said "I was just trying to help out our customer." I believe the shop's fine was $5,000. I paid for a new bike, and didn't ask for the salvage parts (all but the frame). As she had a triathlon coming up, I also paid $200 for her to rent a bike from the shop. I just happened to attend that triathlon. Guess what bike she rode in it? You got it, the "damaged" one. Her choice, and if it had assploded mid-ride, it would have been her fault, totally. I'd have been glad to stand over her broken bleeding body and ask "Wow, how does that $2900 feel now?"

Only in America is 1/3 the price of a ladder due to some idiot falling off of it. Only in America is coffee hot. Only in America is 1/3 the price of a can of soda due to some idiot cutting his lip or tongue. Lemmings, go figure.

Oh, carbon? Sure. Steel? That, too. Both good. Both safe. Just use common sense and don't run into stuff.

Steve Whitlatch 

I am taking the plunge into the abyss. I purchased a 2012 Cannondale Evo high mod that I will build up with Ultegra 10 speed. I am 53 years old. I figure if i am ever going to try it out, might as well be now. Im not getting any younger.

I will let you know my findings after I give the bike time and I get in shape again. Long winter. I knock them, but never really tried one. So picked up a nice used one in great shape, for the cost of a mid level Italian steel race frame. I have almost everything to build it up in my bin, the rest is on its way.

Crazy light frame. 3lbs, 4 oz with bb, headset, stem and seat collar. Its ugly but not as ugly as most.

texaspandj

Dang it, I was gonna say that!

52telecaster

I really dont have too much to say here except that as a wrench i would ride all the bikes i built. The cf ones were usually pretty light but at the end of the day i rode a steel bike home and i liked it best. Of course i was slow and old. Now i am older and slower. My only real complaint about the usa cycling industry is that they dont consider bikes as transportation. This is due in large part to our car culture i guess. Ymmv.

steelbikeguy

I'll give the paint scheme credit just for not being black with red.... that's a paint scheme that's far too common and tedious (although it looks good on a vintage Motobecane!!)

It'll be good for you to give carbon a try and see what you think. My only carbon bike is a 'bent, so I really can't compare it to vintage steel. I will say that the fork doesn't even pretend to flex.. that thing is as solid as a block of concrete! (or just feels like it))

Can we expect a "carbon vs steel" report this fall?? Take good notes, do back-to-back rides, etc. Make sure you use the same tires on each bike, since that's going to have a huge effect on how it feels.

Steve in Peoria

Erzulis Boat 

Spot on.

mstateglfr 

Over the top emotional ranting. Its natural since cycling and c&v is a passion, so its an emotional response to an emotionally appealing activity.
While its a natural response, it can also be suppressed and easily recognized as overly biased.

Who cares if someone buys components based on weight and offsets that with water?...really not sure what thats even supposed to show since, you know, water is required regardless of how much a bike weighs.
Friends at work have bought carbon fiber disc brake bikes in the last 8 months and neither of them need the bikes. They like riding, want something that looks current and works well, so they bought carbon disc road bikes. One is even di2! eek the horror! I can ride faster than them, longer than them, and ride more often than them, but none of those things is important here. They like what they bought and who am I to judge that? The bikes get them out riding and that is whats important.

mstateglfr 

Consumers, as a whole, like new tech. Its why cell phones, computers, TVs, cars, etc etc etc continually update offerings and capabilities.
Same applies to bicycles.

Those things are stocked in shops because shops have determined that they have the best chance of selling those things.

If flip phones and CRT tvs were what consumers wanted, then those things would still dominate retail shelves.

eja_ bottecchia

curbtender

We are lucky to have this variety to argue about. Carbon as a frame isn't really that expensive now. I don't own any carbon wheels, so maybe I don't like them...

Steve Whitlatch 

I have read so many stories on this forum about lusting after that dream racing bike as a kid that their favorite racer rode to glory. Now they own them. Seems like things never change. The young crowd lusts after the bikes their favorite racer rides today. Some things never change.

RiddleOfSteel

Man, a SuperSix Evo! Top level stuff right there. The "Save" chainstays are there to aid in reducing vibration and general road-created harshness while keeping stiffness for power transfer when you're on it. They do this in aluminum as well. I think the frame looks good. Heat tube is a bit tall, and a long stem on the top can make it seem a little goofy, but whatever. If you're setting it up for your comfort, then my aesthetic opinion is irrelevant to the overall goal. Modern Cannondales handle well in my opinion. And if this is anything like my CAAD10 Disc, then it's more long distance rocket than criterium fighter jet. The carbon fork should be fine. It ain't steel that's for sure, but it also isn't a disc fork which is even stiffer. I think that bike is going to rock.

Bianchi84

The only Carbon part I own are zero-rise, zero-bend (basically a carbon tube) Kestrel handlebar on my '84 Cannondale SM 600. I got it cheap at Trade Show long ago! On the last day of the shows, sometimes dealers/suppliers will sell some of their stuff "cheap" rather than haul it all back with them. You can't see the Kestrel logo in this pic; the shifters clamp over them. The bars actually came with plastic inserts for the ends to allow your Onza bar ends to not crush the bars.

eja_ bottecchia

mstateglfr 

Woah- this and that really long post on what constitutes personal responsibility is a lot of generalizations to unpack. I agree with some of your generalizations and find it unfortunate that some others are so mischaracterized.
Clearly you work(ed) on the insurance side of things.

bias, in all forms, sides, and scenarios, is fascinating to me.

curbtender

The owner where I worked came in after losing what he felt was a ridiculous finding. His words..."I'm not going to let anyone here bow out on jury duty and put a bunch of morons in place to make decisions". Hey, full pay plus $15 a day? Worked for me.

Steve Whitlatch 

Thank`s. I hope it rocks. It wont be built super weight weenie. It will have Ultegra 6600 10 speed Flight Deck Sti levers,derailleurs and brakes. Alloy short drop bars, not sure what stem I will end up with. Alloy seat post with a Selle Itallia Flite saddle. Cannondale Si compact crankset. Ultegra hubs laced to Velocity Escape tubular rims with an Ultegra 10 speed cassette. That is what I have on hand anyway. I can always upgrade it another day if I wish. It was top of the line in 2012. If I am going to try it, I may as well go big.

Steve Whitlatch 

Not the back and red but still a moving billboard. Yes I will try to do a good report. Whatever tires I use will be top notch. Not sure I will be able to do the exact same tires because this one will sport tubular`s though I may be able to dig up another set of wheels. The Strava tests should be fun. I just need to get over my fear of Carbon.

CliffordK

I have vintage Carbon, and I'll tell you it is a sweet ride.

And, when I first starting riding it... Ohhh.... that is how a bike should feel... and to think I was riding a steel bike all these years.



Of course, I am always interesting in trying something new... or at least newer... not necessarily cutting edge.

I still hope to break the 15 lb barrier some day.

I've had a bit of a bike explosion lately, and have a couple of bikes to choose from to ride the right bike for the task at hand.

RiddleOfSteel

I think those components should visually pair well with it (to say nothing of functioning superbly well, it is 6600 after all!), even if they are a generation behind what would have been spec'd on the '12 anyway. I did this with my '16 Trek Emonda--both 7800 and 7700 and it looked just fine, if better as the silver broke up the satin/matte black. I totally flubbed my typing in the previous post. I meant to say that the steerer height above the head tube was quite generous. Head tube height is just fine--it matches what it would have been in steel. My CAAD10 is a 63cm and the head tube is appropriately tall.

Steve Whitlatch 

Yes it should function well. Would look better if the shift cables were under the bar tape but I can live with that. I was told it was a 2012 by the person I purchased it from but I think it may be a 2014 looking at the serial number and catalogs? I hope so. That would make me feel a little more safe anyway. Barely any blemishes on the frame set , looks almost new.

steelbikeguy

If the tires are good quality and similar size, then it's probably close enough.
The saddle might be the next most significant factor to the ride quality, at least in terms of comfort. I imagine that you've got a fairly standard selection of saddles by now, and they will all be similar.

Personally, I've settled on leather saddles, and that's partly because of the noticeable flex. Maybe that's why I don't notice a lot of difference between tires?

Have fun with the C'dale! Go find a short loop (or short out-and-back) and switch back and forth between bikes and see if you notice anything other than weight.
I wonder if there is a G meter application for phones that could help quantify shock absorption quality? It would require a fairly solid mounting to the frame or handlebar. Hmm... it's dangerous to let an engineer start pondering this sort of thing for too long,

Steve in Peoria

RobbieTunes

"You're dead to me."

Just kidding.
Ride report (if you survive.)

fietsbob

I just let the kids, you all , do as they want, with Their money ..

Formula One & E motor Sports is all over Carbon Composites , NASCAR & SCCA is not..

I still like the obvious craftsmanship of a hand made steel bike frame , lugwork as jewelry,
though accept the TIG welding as a good way to get the joints made...


I own a Carbon Fiber A5 mandolin made by Clear Carbon and Peter Mix..
here is an example :