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Trying to nail down a color

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Trying to nail down a color

Old 04-03-19, 04:20 AM
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daviddavieboy
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Trying to nail down a color

I am trying to figure out the color to use on a bike I am refinishing but cannot come to a decision. I have found a picture of another members bike @stronglight I love it but am not sure if my monitor is playing tricks with the color. I have been told over at CR that the color of my bike was "team orange" but any examples on the internet look too dark and closer to Molteni Orange and mine is definitely lighter than that. I have the decal set with red lettering to match the crests as it was originally on my frame and i think they would really pop on a lighter colored frame.

The RAL color for the Molteni orange is 2004 which is a dead ringer for Kubota orange (compared the two side by side) The color I think is closest to mine is RAL 2011 which is a shade lighter than my Surly CC in real life. (tangerine).

The pictures are of my bike before being stripped(true color on my monitor) and the picture of the complete bike belongs to @stronglight





Last edited by daviddavieboy; 04-03-19 at 04:43 AM. Reason: spelling :)
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Old 04-03-19, 10:13 AM
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I'm not sure I can help, but I do sympathize!
I was getting a bike painted and wanted something similar to the "burnt orange" that Waterford was using. The painter was still using Dupont Imron, so I borrowed a buddy's Waterford for the sake of finding an Imron that was close.
It turned out fairly well. Here's the bike....



The painter had a sample tube with the Imron color code on it.....



Of course, most painters have gone away from Imron by now. I wonder if you could ask Waterford for the color code of their paint??

Steve in Peoria
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Old 04-03-19, 12:28 PM
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Bob Jackson is still in business, and may still offer the same color. Getting from that to the details needed to duplicate it is another matter, but you might be able to get them to duplicate it. In the grand scheme of things, their single color respray is pretty reasonable, if you'd care to go that route.
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Old 04-03-19, 04:15 PM
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I'm not sure I agree the Molteni orange is RAL 2004. I believe my De Rosa is Molteni orange and it's a lot lighter than 2004. I've seen speculation that there were multiple Molteni oranges. The one I'm picturing is closer to Porsche Signal Orange. It's always a crap shoot as to how well a picture conveys color, but this one looks close on my monitor.



It's hard to tell about your color bike was, not just because of the digital issue but also because of the patina. It could be close to what I'm showing above, but then again maybe not.
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Old 04-03-19, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by USAZorro View Post
Bob Jackson is still in business, and may still offer the same color. Getting from that to the details needed to duplicate it is another matter, but you might be able to get them to duplicate it. In the grand scheme of things, their single color respray is pretty reasonable, if you'd care to go that route.
I have given up on BJC for anything. I have sent multiple emails to them over the months and have yet to get a single reply.

Originally Posted by steelbikeguy View Post
I'm not sure I can help, but I do sympathize! . . .
It turned out fairly well. Here's the bike....
The painter had a sample tube with the Imron color code on it.....
Of course, most painters have gone away from Imron by now. I wonder if you could ask Waterford for the color code of their paint??
Steve in Peoria
Thanks Steve. That color is very close. The number on the tube converts to a Valencia Orange used by International on tractors in the 50's.

Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
I'm not sure I agree the Molteni orange is RAL 2004.
It's hard to tell about your color bike was, not just because of the digital issue but also because of the patina. It could be close to what I'm showing above, but then again maybe not.
I have no experience with Molteni but the consensus is that 2004 is a match. RAL 2010 is called signal orange. RAL 2003 is the surly tangerine (as stated by Surly) Yes the bike did have patina but it matched very well with paint I found hidden on the steer tube. Is the picture of the BB yours? If it is a respray what color is it. If Signal Orange I will go with that.
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Old 04-03-19, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by daviddavieboy View Post
Is the picture of the BB yours? If it is a respray what color is it. If Signal Orange I will go with that.
It is mine, and it is a respray, but the respray was done for a previous owner by Cyclart. Signal Orange would be my guess, but I can't be sure.
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Old 04-03-19, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
I'm not sure I agree the Molteni orange is RAL 2004. I believe my De Rosa is Molteni orange and it's a lot lighter than 2004. I've seen speculation that there were multiple Molteni oranges. The one I'm picturing is closer to Porsche Signal Orange. It's always a crap shoot as to how well a picture conveys color, but this one looks close on my monitor.



It's hard to tell about your color bike was, not just because of the digital issue but also because of the patina. It could be close to what I'm showing above, but then again maybe not.
The match to this Holdsworth is said to be Porche Signal Orange which came out in 1967 long before Molteni Orange.



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Old 04-03-19, 07:07 PM
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RAL 2004 is closer to the Orange used on Motobecane Champion Team bikes in the early ‘70’s. Porsche Signal Orange appears too yellow to be a Molteni Orange match.

I do agree with others who say there is more than one shade of Molteni Orange.
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Old 04-04-19, 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by satbuilder View Post
RAL 2004 is closer to the Orange used on Motobecane Champion Team bikes in the early ‘70’s. Porsche Signal Orange appears too yellow to be a Molteni Orange match.

I do agree with others who say there is more than one shade of Molteni Orange.
There is that and also it is almost a lost cause trying to compare paint that may be faded over time and then on on a digital photo on a computer monitor. I have been comparing ral powder to real life examples. Knowing that my bike is faded and it matches 2011 now the 2010 (signal orange) is probably as near as it gets. He has the 2004 and 2011 on the shelf so I am tempted. He said I can have it back in a week.

So far . . .
2004 is the Kubota orange,
2003 for the CC (dream tangerine) according to Surly, which is what Home Depot also uses for their color
2010 is called signal orange and I have compared it to an actual porsche in that color (the car was faded but it was very close).
2011 is the can-am orange
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Old 04-04-19, 08:23 AM
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This may be relevant in the quest to match paint colors from the past:
In my former life as a volunteer firefighter, we were ordering a new truck. We wanted it to match the rest of the trucks, so we gave the manufacturer the paint code from our last truck, purchased just a few years earlier. The manufacturer called back a few weeks later and told us there were three different shades with that code number, all from the same paint company! They sent us samples so we could choose the best match. The differences weren't even subtle. One was slightly orange, like a tomato, one was slightly maroon, and one was true red. It's no wonder people have so much trouble matching colors, when the paint companies aren't even consistent.
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Old 04-04-19, 08:44 AM
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The stove enamel paint used in the UK during the period this Bob Jackson was made is not at all like the paints we use in the States. They only way I would know how to match the color is by looking at paint samples and guessing.
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Old 04-04-19, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Pompiere View Post
It's no wonder people have so much trouble matching colors, when the paint companies aren't even consistent.
Yep ! Even here when getting paint for cars I will get a different shade depending on who mixed the color. The 70' Porsche signal orange seems to have been used by Ford, Lotus and Hyundai at different times and the Imron code on the picture of the pipe has been used on International, Chevrolet, and Chrysler vehicles. I would bet not one of them is the same shade.
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Old 04-04-19, 11:21 AM
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-----

Had one of my machines painted Volkswagen Signal Orange, perhaps same color as Porsche Signal Orange?

It is definitely lighter/yellower than Molteni Orange, Moteobecane Team Pro orange or Holdsworth team orange.


-----
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Old 04-04-19, 11:26 AM
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Fwiw, all of these oranges look delicious
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Old 04-04-19, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Nathanael47 View Post
Fwiw, all of these oranges look delicious
that sounds like an excuse for me to post a photo of a Testors "orange" paint that I thought might be a match for the orange Imron paint in my earlier post.
Clearly, Testors has never seen an orange....



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(I still need to take the bike down to the local paint shop and have them mix up a bottle of touch-up paint)
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Old 04-04-19, 12:15 PM
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To my eyes the 2011 is a pretty good match WRT the hue. The original paint looks slightly lighter and more pastel actually, like 2011 with a little white mixed in, veering a tiny bit towards 2007. That could be fading, or lighting. Also, I don't have a color book in front of me. Just looking on a monitor, there are many variables.

There's no law that says paint must be mixed to predetermined colors. That orange may have been mixed up in the BJ paint shop on the fly.
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Old 04-04-19, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
To my eyes the 2011 is a pretty good match WRT the hue. The original paint looks slightly lighter and more pastel actually, like 2011 with a little white mixed in, veering a tiny bit towards 2007. That could be fading, or lighting. Also, I don't have a color book in front of me. Just looking on a monitor, there are many variables.

Funny you should mention that. I just dropped of my frame at the powder coat shop. I told him that I wanted RAL 2010 and after a bit of digging he said he had none and would have to charge me $120 more to bring it in. I asked what he still had and he came up with 2004 and 2011. “2011 it is” I said. I pick it up in a couple weeks.
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