Basic Tools-C-Spanner-Is this a better way to go?
 

I have two C-Spanner wrenches to loosen the locking ring on the bottom bracket for vintage bottom brackets. One, Park Tool HCW-5 has a single pin to go into the gaps cut in the lock ring at one of its ends with the other end there are three pins, while the second a Campagnolo tool has five pins to fit into the gaps of the lock ring. So many lock rings look like they have been chewed by a hungry dog, with rounded out gaps or partially broken corners from a C-Spanner twisting out of perfect engagement under pressure and damaging the lock ring, thus my evolution from a single tooth spanner to the five tooth Campagnolo spanner, but then I came across these C-Spanners.https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...87cc221d1c.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3db487526f.jpg

As you can see one has a plate added (Shimano) while the other has an indent stamped into it (Campagnolo). These would seem to be a great improvement, allowing multiple engagement of the lock ring by 5 teeth, while allowing you to press the teeth tight into engagement against the plate/stamped indent so that they do not slip out/off under pressure, eliminating damage to the adjustment ring gaps.

Has anyone used such C-Spanners?

Do they work? Are my presumptions on how they should work better true given your experience?

Again my thanks for your thoughts and advice.

IMHO this ongoing issue speaks to the challenges associated with these wonderful machines we embrace.

The tasks often don't lend themselves to impatience, compound this with spartan tools, hard to come by finesse, lack of a proper stand and many other idiosyncrasies, cobbling and butchery can soon follow.

It is easy to stand back at the outset and say "how hard can it be?", only to find out the answer is "very" after it is too late.

I am a lifelong mechanic/technician, fomoco and ASE Senior Master certified for 30 years, Drag race motorcycles, fixed many things at the track and on the road and still always try to check myself when I work on most things, it's easier to take the time to think it through and get it right before something goes wrong, still not always easy to do, I've screwed up plenty.

So it still comes down to comfort and skill level for the task and resources on hand at the time.

My answer to your question is a Sugino BB tool, the hook end engages the notch and with the correct pressure, compresses and holds the lockring securely like a vise, it has never failed me in 45 years.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...318141858e.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4f293345e9.jpg

Merziac am I tracking right from your pictures:

Use the Sugino to hook into the locking ring notch.
Then use the adjustable clamp to clamp the Sugino tool tight into the against the bottom bracket.
So that when you have to apply torque through the Sugino hook tool if you wobble while doing so it doesn't allow the hook to escape from the locking ring notch rounding or chipping a corner off?
Not clear on the square board (?) is that to expand the grip of the adjustable clamp?

Did it get it right, as that would really help to keep the hook in the notch no matter how the handle wobbles so they are engaged fully rather than slipping loose and rounding or chipping off a corner of the locking ring.

You're close, here's the setup, depends on which side you are working on and if the spindle is out or not, you also need a different "cheater" depending on which wrench/end you're using, large thinwall pipe with a mostly flattened end that fits over the free end of the wrench, with the clamp, socket spacers and wood I use the park 3? prong lockring tool on the NDS, sandwich it all together and apply force. on the DS if you are going the wrong way it still cracks it loose,then you reverse direction and remove, easy peasy, no muss no fuss regardless.

You're absolutely right about the wobble, once you trap the wrench, you can really lean on it without worry, you still want to keep the force in line so it works well and minimizes any chance of trouble.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...251c0fed14.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4b29deea59.jpg

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f9d434fc08.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0ff976a3ec.jpg

Merziac,: Great idea! I'll remember this since I have the same tool and have bruised a few fingers in the past.

At least it seems the Sugino tool has an engagement tab with a sensible hooking angle.

Park has one model that combines the lockring tool with a 32mm wrench end - the HCW-12 - and it's up there as one of Park's worst tools. It isn't radiussed enough to cradle most quality lockrings so that the tab engages properly. Chewed up tabs and busted knuckles are the result. Plus, you rarely need the 32mm wrench end when you're buggering about with BB lockrings...

-Kurt

Not only that, but it engages tighter and better when you apply force, to me it literally grabs hold and helps hold on to get it loose, you just have to keep it straight.

They are worth their weight in gold as far as I'm concerned, mine is 45 years old and has never failed me, still going strong.

If you "trap" the wrench and employ the right "cheater" you can control a lot of force to make this a piece of cake.

It has never failed me, damaged any tools, cups or frames, ever, period. :thumb:

For lockrings with an even number of notches, I prefer a lockring pliers like the VAR-16:

http://www.os2.dhs.org/~john/var-16.jpg

Or, you can make your own from a slip-jaw pliers:

https://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-Lockring-Pliers/

Merziac thanks for a great tutorial that solves the problem on getting the adjustment ring off/on without damage, I'll be assembling the tools you use and keeping your posted pictures for reference.

On the removal of the fixed cup on the other side I've decided to go with the Stein Tool remover. I like you like the idea of getting both cups out to service and check everything in the bottom bracket before re-assembly and this tool looks to be both well made, reasonably priced and simple to use.

Again thanks for you advice.

Hmmm, is it just me, or is the plate on the Shimano tool on the wrong side, for removal? You'd want to engage the tool with the surface facing the camera toward you, but with the lettering upside down, right? So the other end of the tool is facing forward, and you'd be pushing down on it? So shouldn't that plate be on the surface facing the camera? I suppose the plate would be appropriate for using the tool when tightening the lock ring, but that's not when you need it.

Looks like you can move the plate to either side of either end as needed, if not, I would make it so. Now on the look out for one of these. ;)

Anytime, you're welcome. :thumb:

Copy that; looking again, yeah, those are little screws, not rivets. Hmm, anyone know of a part/item number on that Shimano tool?

I'm going to modify a park to make it like this, they be spendy and I have several to work with. ;)